uhmmmm....ok, [forestgumpmode}

why can't i put a pool heater on a gfi breaker?




~S(life is like a box of wirenuts)parky~
[/forestgumpmode}

There's no rule against it. Indeed, many whirlpool spas come with the heaters - and everything else - GFI protected at the 50 amp feed.

Sparky:
Hola mi amigo....

Perhaps the electronic ignition device (spark ignitor) is the culprit?

Since they are supposed to be downstream of the pump on the pump circuit I am not sure how you avoid it.

havnen't read anything specifically stating 'pool heater must be on a GFI' , nor does the manfacture's instruction state anything of the sort (save for the usual 'call a licensed sparky' copout)

~S~

possibly so, this is a 220V gas fired heater....~S~

well the instructions show the heater downstream from the pool timer (if that's what you mean Greg)

the problem there is, no timer was provided .....

okay, withpout digging too far into the good book here,let's dwell on the concept(s)

we're suppose to bond the living daylights outta a pool for the benifit of an equopotential plane, which greatly enhances the efficy of gfci protection right?

so here is this 220V gas fired pool heater, comes with a #8 externally mounted ground lug , says zip about gfci protection, and states in bold letters Do Not Bond to Pool Motor, ground to 'approved earth ground only'

excuse me? are we talking G-rods? what?

I've installed two 2p-gfci breakers (inside) feeding out to the pump motor and heater respectively here, with an outside disco for each, just in case....

i've also bonded it all together back to the pool's bond because that's what's been drilled into me (as well as the '08 nec)

if the infernal thing can't live on a gfci i'm not sure i'd be comfortable deleting it here...

~S~

What brand heater is this? I don't see anything like that in my StaRite heater instructions.
That is one reason why I am not 100% in favor of making 110.3(B) gospel. Just because something gets translated from Chinese to say something stupid, I will still trump it with the NEC requirements.
The intent is that you can't get power to the heater unless the pump is running, hence down stream of the timer. That timer is also supposed to be 2 stage so it runs the pump 15 minutes after the heater stops. Without a timer you lose that safety feature. If the heater is wired directly to power it is even worse than that and you are depending on the flow/pressure switch to prevent a "dry fire".
As for bonding, we all know what the right answer is.

Sparky:
I'm confused now....why 220 volts to a gas fired heater?? Something in it require 220?

Ya definitely have to do as Greg said...run the pump for a cool down period, or the heater will kinda self destruct really soon. AS to the bonding....perhaps 'earth' as '08 def for ground? Lost in a language translation.

The line voltage runs the blower, gas valve, control board and igniter. You can order them 120 or 240 depending on what pump you use. Some are dual voltage with taps to select the one you want

well i'll go back to this job soon, gotta few finishing touches, and report back here....

i really don't know why anyome would want their pool pump and heater running 24/7 anyways, seems odd

more as i get it....and thanks fellas...~S~

Is this commercial. It is common to run the heaters 24/7 in a commercial pool. Usually the health department requires that the pump runs all the time anyway.
If you are a bazillionaire I suppose you run the heater in a residential pool all the time too. I sure can't afford it.

spot on, this is one of Vermont's McMansions owned by a wall street ceo Greg

he's got more $$$ than God

and being the AHL (Authority Having Liability) i'm trying to be as cautious as possible.....

~S~

ok, this is a Pentair heater with a Pentair pump

of note>>>>here

Use of any electrical equipment such as underwater lights, deck lights, the pool pump or any other accessory can pose a safety threat to people in the water if the wiring is incorrect or faulty. Use the following safety precautions to avoid electrocution or electrical shock:

Always use a trained technician for installation, service or repair of any electrical wiring or equipment. Have your technician verify these points:
Use ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCI) for the power supply circuit for each piece of electrical equipment, including utility pumps to drain the pool water. The GFCI will disconnect the power supply if any electricity leaks are detected.

Make sure your installation meets all local and national codes.

Make sure all electrical equipment is grounded and all metal objects (ladders, diving platforms, etc.) are electrically bonded together.
Never use extension cords around a pool or spa.

Never enter the water when a utility pump is running.

Never put an aluminum vacuum handle into the pool.

Never swim in your pool or spa during an electrical storm.

Sparky:

From your post:

"Use ground fault circuit interrupters (GFCI) for the power supply circuit for each piece of electrical equipment, including utility pumps to drain the pool water. The GFCI will disconnect the power supply if any electricity leaks are detected."

110.3 (b) follow mfg instructions.....guess there's a 'leak' in the thing somewhere.
Warranty issue with the pool guy? Seriously, it could be a bad unit.

This is a classic reason why I question 110.3(B).



I tried waving it over the pool and it didn't do diddly squat.

Greg:

I saw that...but passed on the option to comment. Nice choice of words!

well the 'pool guy' finally showed up.

they say they always request a timer on the pump motor, not the heater, and i guess rely on the protectants the heater has....

yanno, i always ask these 'pool/sauna/hot tub/appliance guys what they're used to seeing, just out of professional courtesy

but to be honest, i really don't think they have intricate knowledge of the product(s) they are selling

so anyways, everything conflicts here

the paperwork instructions vs. the online ones

the pool guy vs. either

everything vs. the nec

so....i've bonded it all up as much as i possibly could, and have everything operating on a GFI

that's one thing i'm not about to compromise on....

~S~

I wouldn't compromise on the timer either. It is a 110.3(B). I guarantee when you look at the "fireman's switch" section of the installation manual they will tell you the pump needs to be wired to a timer that makes the pump run "X" minutes after the heater shuts off (X = 15 in the case of my StaRite 330kbtu). The safeties in the heater will shut the heater down but you still have a lot of residual heat in there and you will make steam. Playing with my IR thermometer I figured out 30 seconds to a minute will probably do the trick but the instructions are what they say.

i think i will Greg

i see Tork has one too>>>>

P SERIES MECHANICAL TIME SWITCHES

~S~