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Posted By: Yoopersup Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/28/09 04:10 PM
Bio-Diesel plant . Article 500??? Explosion proof requirements if any???
Got any answers out there??
Yoopersup
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/28/09 04:23 PM
This is sort of where the bulk fuel plant crosses into deep fryer hood territory isn't it?
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/29/09 04:31 AM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
This is sort of where the bulk fuel plant crosses into deep fryer hood territory isn't it?


MDR { LoL }.,,

Normally the diesel fuel mixed with Biofuel set up it is no worst than normal diesel fuel due the flash point is about roughly the same as conventail diesel fuel is. and I don't think it need specal class for it unless the Inspector required it.

Merci,Marc
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/29/09 01:27 PM
I agree with Marc.
There was a 'large' bio-diesel facility that was coming soon here....but it never happened. Existing structure, rail access, large tanks delivered to site..then nothing! May have been a $$$ problem.
Posted By: Jim M Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/30/09 03:20 AM
I am finishing up a house where the HO wants to process the fry oil into bio-diesel. Sounds like you just need to filter out the fry bits and evaporate the water out of it.

He says he will just use 3 water heater type elements to remove the water.
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/30/09 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by Jim M
I am finishing up a house where the HO wants to process the fry oil into bio-diesel. Sounds like you just need to filter out the fry bits and evaporate the water out of it.

He says he will just use 3 water heater type elements to remove the water.


Jim,

I hope that person do understand about useing waterheater element in WFO { waste fryer oil } can raise some issue espceally when they are heated pretty well.

Mention to them about drum heater they are somehow safer this way.

Merci,Marc
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/30/09 03:57 AM
You are starting to see why I brought up the "fryer hood" thing huh?
Electric element, tub of oil ... what could possibly go wrong? wink
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/30/09 04:18 AM
Yeah Greg.

I can see your point related to this situation but if you get the oil hot engough it will take off by itself or some dolt induce pure oxygen and you know what this will happend ?? blink

I did see the fryer oil catch on fire before.

Basically when it get heated up they have about the same heat intensty of convetinal diesel fuel / heating fuel oil once they lit up they will just take off pretty fast.

Merci,Marc
Posted By: LarryC Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 04/30/09 07:14 PM
Processing waste Fryer oil into bio DIESEL requires more than just filters and evaporating the water. Things include chemically strong base (Lye) and an alcohol (Methanol).

Both compounds are extremely reactive and if mishandled can either burn or poison someone very easily. Plus we also have the washing process to clean the final product.

So at least, he is looking at a wet environment, flammible storage, chemical storage, electrical heating elements, pumps, and few other assorted hazards.

Sounds like it should be a piece of cake. smile

If he is looking to use Vegatable oil to power engines or burners, then he has to deal with filtering, drying, and mixing of the oil into conventional petroleum fuel. Plus heating the oil prior to use in cold weather.

Absolutely no hazards there either. smile

If all of those hazards are addressed, then go right ahead, but please notify the local fire department so they know what hazards might be there if a fire does occurs.

Larry C
Posted By: Alan Belson Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 05/01/09 09:02 PM
Biodiesel has a higher flash point/auto ignition temperature than diesel oil.

Here's my list of fuels, which may prove handy if you ever get invited to a Geeks Convention! laugh

Temperatures are in degrees C
Exact flash and ignition temperatures of oils/fat fuels cannot be given, due to their variability.
All the figures quoted below are published figures from reliable sources.
‘Flash points’ for vegetable oils/fats are about 140-190șC in a pressure jet burner spray arrangement- see video below.
The true flash point for vegetable oil is around 240șC
Diesel oils flash point: 70-130șC depending on grade and blend.
B100 Biodiesel flash point: 150-220șC depending on quality and feedstock vegetable oil/fat. B100 IS PURE BIODIESEL. When cut with regular diesel the number represents the biodiesel percent. B3 is 3% biodiesel for instance.

Auto Ignition point for vegetable oil is about 245șC.
An electric arc in air is at a temperature of over 3700șC.
Auto ignition points for various fuels show a wide variation:
FUEL AUTO IGNITION TEMPERATURE șC
Hydrogen 500
Carbon monoxide 609
Methane 580
Acetylene 305
Ethylene 490
Ethyl Alcohol 365
Gasoline 280
Diesel [ #2 oil] 256
Kerosene [UK=paraffin] 210
Vegetable oil c.245
Paper 236
Propane 480
Butane 420
Oak [dry] 480
Peat 227
Charcoal [aged] 350
Bituminous coal 300
B100 Biodiesel c.235


For home heating purposes IMHO there is no point in converting WVO to biodiesel, as the methanol and other chemical costs make it only viable for use in engines or to deny Gummints' Revenue Men. And, Larry, you are right about the hazards of messing with lye and methanol - methoxide is a lethal poison that can enter via your skin. It is also self-anaethetizing so you don't notice the big hole you just burned right through your hand till you see your feet through the hole! DON'T MESS WITH MAKING BIODIESEL AT HOME!

Just clean the WVO of fries, chickens and dead customers, [I use a centrifuge], but a special burner is needed. Here's a typical WVO burner - but be aware, this is an advert....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ZriEMN0FQ&feature=channel

My atavar shows my version, still being developped.

Alan




Posted By: gfretwell Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 05/01/09 10:30 PM
I can't believe there is actually and "waste" fryer oil around these days. In 1990 Burger King was selling it to someone. I have to believe that is a "product" these days.
My wife did have an electrician who was "wiring for oil" at her place. He was burning in his truck and I don't think he did anything but filter it. Now I believe they sell it to a reprocessor.
Posted By: Alan Belson Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 05/02/09 11:47 PM
Greg, agreed, the big chains like McDonalds will find a ready market for their used oil as animal feed, cosmetics stock, biofuels or soap manufacture. They replace their oil by formula hours rather than when the fries start going brown before they're cooked, they have one consistent type and quality of oil, easy to reprocess, and they have it in large quantities so their disposal method will already be efficient and costed. The 'mom and pop' operations are not so well organised. Their oil-type varies as they seek best value, they have small quantities and it costs them money to dispose of it due to the transport & disposal difficulties. That's where I get my oil, small outlets. I provide clean 5 Gallon containers, a coarse strainer, a funnel/tundish, regular free collections and I keep the agreed disposal point clean. Service. They save money, I save money, and the day I can't bum a free coffee are not here yet! Today for example I collected about 30 gallons from the expat British 'Fish and Chips' guy who operates a mobile outlet in this area, plus free half pint mug of "builders"*. Not a lot, but regular supplies add up, and I already have about 300 gallons in store already for next winter. 34 million btus notionally free for a little initiative?

*very strong tea. 12 sugars. smile

Alan
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Bio-Diesel classification ???? - 05/03/09 05:35 AM
Yup Allan, you must be one of those guys who wires for oil wink

I understand if the small guy doesn't contract for his oil to go away for free, or sell it, he has to pay to have it hauled off.
My wife's company (when she was a builder) paid to have scrap copper and aluminum hauled off. There is no telling for insanity
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