ECN Forum
Posted By: leland "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/21/09 02:48 AM
If I install a receptacle in a car wash bay, or A medical research lab area (with water around Wet location).

Do I need one?
Posted By: renosteinke Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/21/09 02:56 AM
Yes. The 'industrial' exception has been tightened up considerably. That's the code.

Realistically though .... the one in the car wash is going to be busted off within minutes of your leaving. I'd rather see an intact weather cover, than a broken bubble cover.

As for the research lab ... I'd go the extra mile, gat a metal one, and use tamper-resistant screws. Those dweebs love to play around.
Posted By: leland Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/21/09 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by renosteinke
Yes. The 'industrial' exception has been tightened up considerably. That's the code.


406.8(B)(1) Exception: Has changed?

406.8(B)(2)(b). could I not say that an outside rec on a dwelling is for a weed whacker? therefor not needing a 'bubble' cover?

406.8(A)- covered porch no 'bubble' required? Inspectors demand it (am I wrong?).
Posted By: Tom Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/28/09 05:57 PM
Leland,

406.8(B)(1) exception is new and IMO allows you to get away from the bubble cover in a car wash even though you are not high pressure washing the wall or receptacle cover. I could be all wet in my understanding of this. Also, there are metal bubble covers on the market.

406.8(B)(2) applies to receptacles other than the ones in (B)(1) such as a 30 amp or larger receptacle.

Lastly, I've always had problems with damp locations. I've never seen a really good definition of a damp location. How far back under the porch roof is the receptacle? If the AHJ feels that the wind could blow rain back that far, then it is a wet location. I've always stuck to the 45 degree installation. If you draw a line extending back from the edge of the roof 45 degrees and the outlet or other equipment is above the line, it is a damp location, below the line a wet location. If the wind is strong enough to blow the rain at a greater angle, a bubble cover is the least of your worries.

Tom
Posted By: SteveFehr Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/28/09 07:05 PM
But where do you plug in your pressure washer??

Assume for a moment you want to "exceed" the code and put in a bubble. A standard bubble wouldn't work here, and would just create false confidence. It would have to be a NEMA-4X bubble; do they even exist?
Posted By: Tom Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/29/09 12:59 AM
The OP didn't state if the car wash bay was a typical coin operated installation. If it is coin operated, the pressure pump is usually hard wired and located in a dry location.

If you're plugging in a pressure washer & are concerned about the receptacle getting soaked, install a pendant receptacle that has rubber boots that seal the connectors when you're plugged in.

Regardless of what you do, sooner or later some bonehead is going to see if that wet location connection can withstand the 3500 + psi that these things can put out.
Posted By: leland Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/29/09 05:19 AM
Re-Read- 406.8(B)- Bubble is required.
The Exception is not needed.
Heck, If your plugged in you need a WP cover,If not, WP cover still needed. ...??...
Posted By: gfretwell Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/29/09 08:12 AM
Pressure washer plugs usually have built in GFCIs. I have never seen a bubble that would hold one and still close.

Posted By: HotLine1 Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/29/09 03:08 PM
Greg:
With due respect, my pressure washer has a GFI in the cord, approx. 18" from the male cap.


Posted By: gfretwell Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/29/09 08:28 PM
My 5 HP washer (30a 240v) has that in the cord but the 120v baby pressure washer has it in the plug.
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/30/09 04:17 AM
Mine 3Ø pressure washer do have GFCI on the pump control panel { it is wired on 480 volts }

for single phase units it will be either end of cord cap or midway of the cord that where the GFCI will be located.

Merci,Marc
Posted By: George Little Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/31/09 03:56 AM
I have mixed feelings about "Bubble Covers". I think they are a very good code requirement but there are a few issues.

1. They can keep the water out of the receptacle if installed properly ie: vertical and horizontal as is needed.
2. Seal with caulk or silicone when the surface is not conducive to the gasket provided with the unit.
3. The budget minded ones look like sit.
4. They are easily broken off when exposed to even casual usage.
5. The customers are offended by the appearance of the production models but I think the customer's standards might rise if they were offered some optional models.
6. Keeping insects out is always a problem.
7. I would not install a surface "Bubble Cover" on my own house but would opt for a recessed model that only extends out from the surface about 1/2 inch or one with a expandable cover.

Okay I'm off my soap box.
Posted By: leland Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/31/09 06:09 AM
I'm not mixed. they stink.
they break 1 week after inspection and are never replaced/repaired. Wow, Big safety issue. X-mas... Holiday lites in every year for the next twenty.

GFI does more than those crazy covers.

But 'We' feel better don't we.
BULL POOP !!! (along with other 'new' issues).
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/31/09 06:57 AM


Taymac

I got 2 free samples of these, and I installed one at work in a location that had been through 2 T&B in-use covers. They're holding up pretty decently. (Location has a chemical pump that's always plugged in, while also being used for tools. etc. rather frequently) [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]
Posted By: EV607797 Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/31/09 07:24 AM
I got the Taymac freebies too, but I find them to require way too much thought by the user (I am trying them at my home). In an ISO facility or one where there is a full-time safety program, they might work. They do seal nicely for people who know what they are doing.

The problem is that the typical consumer isn't going to go to the trouble of ensuring that the cover is "properly" latched shut to maintain compliance. They are going to plug in the cord and walk away.

Good concept, but I don't see these being big sellers. There is just too much of a requirement to think about securing the cover properly. People are in too much of a hurry to worry about that stuff.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 01/31/09 07:45 PM
When the bubble covers first came out ( 1991?), I thought they were the neatest thing. Heck, I had even aquired a few of the samples submitted for testing. Why, I could think of several places - sprinkler timer comes to mind - where they were just what I wanted.

Yet, I never countenanced this bubble mania that has infected the NEC; indeed, prior to the creation of the 'bubbles' there were several models available whose covers, properly installed, acted as 'umbrellas' when open. I had no doubt that these covers would pass the 'rain test.'

For those who don't know, there are several 'rain tests' in the ANSI standards. However they are arranged, one thing is common: falling droplets fall at a 15-20 degree angle from the vertical. "Pass" is defined by the failure of water to accumulate to troublesome levels.

In the 15+ years since ... think of it as 5 code cycles ... we've seen the code expand to where they are almost the only covers allowed in wet areas. This is countered by increasing recognition, in the field, of the limitations of the covers.

As an example, EVERY Taymac I've installed has been trashed by the first person to attempt to open it ... the opening means isn't obvious or user-friendly at all. Indeed, the latching mechanism of any of the covers is one of the causes for annoyance; folks don't like having to wiggle them 'just so' to open them - they want them to open with a simple lifting motion.

There's the issue of the covers not having enough space for any but the smallest plugs, attached to the lightest of cords. Fine for Christmas lights, not so good for that #10-SO extension cord you made. Let alone if anything you use - like that sprinkler timer - has a transformer ("Wall wart") in the plug.

One thing that can't really be avoided - though Taymac really tried! - is that the covers project out ... raising both aesthetic and stumbling issues.

I am now convinced that the NEC needs to get out of the "bubble cover" business. With hindsight, I think we all got carried away, and confused "best" with "good enough." I think that use of a bubble cover is more of a design issue, than a code matter.

A recent picture circulated in the trade press showed, as their 'violation' photo, a receptacle behind some vending machines. This installation highlights the issue pretty well. The machines themselves are both a blessing and a curse; they keep folks away from the receptacle, and protect the receptacled from the weather. Yet, add a bubble cover, and you can't push the machines back nearly as much as before - enough to now make the machines much easier for folks to move, stuff trash behind, etc. Placing the machines is also very likely to damage the covers.

In the vending machine example, as well as many others, the bubble covers just aren't working.
Posted By: SteveFehr Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 02/02/09 07:29 PM
Bubble covers don't adequately protect from splashed water, either. I lost a 2-year old GFCI this summer, presumably from water splashing from the ground up 24" into the bottom of the bubble cover. (I presume water damage, as none of the other GFCIs from that batch that I installed the same time failed.)
Originally Posted by EV607797
I got the Taymac freebies too, but I find them to require way too much thought by the user (I am trying them at my home). In an ISO facility or one where there is a full-time safety program, they might work. They do seal nicely for people who know what they are doing.

The problem is that the typical consumer isn't going to go to the trouble of ensuring that the cover is "properly" latched shut to maintain compliance. They are going to plug in the cord and walk away.

Good concept, but I don't see these being big sellers. There is just too much of a requirement to think about securing the cover properly. People are in too much of a hurry to worry about that stuff.
I got a duo of the tandymac covers to evaluate, too, and really liked them, they worked great, looked great, seemed like they'll hold up well, etc. I put one on my house and one on my shed to see how they'll hold up under real-world use.

Come Christmas, though, I discovered my wife was treating them as if it were just a hinged cover! Worse, actually, as they won't spring back when you're done.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink! I wonder how many other homeowners will do the same?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 02/02/09 09:06 PM
The silliest thing I have ever seen is a bubble cover with the cord going to several strings of Christmas lights or ANY extension cord. What is keeping the rain out of the down stream receptacles?
Posted By: leland Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 02/03/09 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
The silliest thing I have ever seen is a bubble cover with the cord going to several strings of Christmas lights or ANY extension cord. What is keeping the rain out of the down stream receptacles?


Exactly.
I'll confess: Not a single bubble cover on my property.
10 outlets installed 3 years ago (outside) Christm...Holiday lights,landscape lights,timers and all never a problem.
Yes they are GFI. Old fashioned horizontal spring loaded to boot.

Springs are so good,I have to climb behind the shrubs to unplug anything. Now thats a pain, No just pulling the cord! frown
Posted By: leland Re: "Bubble" receptacle cover - 02/03/09 05:53 AM
grin (no permit either) SHHHHHHHH.
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