We often hear that "the code requires ...', but finding that requirement isn't always easy. Let's look at the circuits used to power signs, as an example.

It has been asserted that signs are required to be on a dedicated circuit. I am having a bit of trouble finding the part of the code that requires this.

600.5(A) simply says that there will be a sign circuit at the entrance to a business. As best I can tell, it does not address signs in other locations ... such as in the parking lot or on the roof of a building.

210.62 addresses 'show windows,' but is silent on other locations .. even other windows in the building. If nothing else, this opens the debate as to just what makes a window a "show window." As an example: is the glass front of the local convenience store a "show window?"

While this might seem an exercise in semantics ... I'm not sure the code requires ALL signs, no matter where placed, to be on a dedicated 'sign circuit.' I think we can all see where it would be easier to tie a sign into, say, an adjacent lighting circuit, or even an exit sign circuit.

Nor is this made moot by the required loads. With the advent of LED signs, we can no longer assume that even large signs will draw much of a load.

What are your thoughts?

I understand in some places a "sign" can have the same load requirements as a small village but in my little town they are so limited in size and illumination that they can easily share a general lighting circuit. I agree, I am not sure why you can force a dedicated circuit when the sign only has four T8s in it. Particularly if the sign is on the building facade.

JMO, but I believe that since most commercial sign and parking lot lighting is normally on over three hours, it would be considered a continuous load.
Since these circuits would need to be calculated at 125%, I think the only way to really do that accurately is with individual dedicated circuits having known maximum loads.
I see that 220.14[F] gives a 1200 VA minimum rating for each required branch circuit.
I’m only guessing that "required" would mean, as needed, since 220.14[F] references 600.5[A] and as you already noted, 600.5[A] only states that there must be at least one accessible outlet for sign use at each entrance and that the branch circuit for the one or more outlets be rated at 20A and have no other outlets.
This seems be another one of those cryptic NEC requirements that require additional background information as to the reasoning behind it.

Reno:
The wording within 600.5 (A) also does not state 'exterior' for the required outlet. Granted, we all put it outside.

As to pylon type signs, not a word as to circuitry. Basically, I have to say it's a design thing, not 'code'.

Hence, as the NEC is not a design tool, the 'other' signage has to be left to the designers.

Those that say...'the code requires' need an Article to back up the statement

Maybe a requirement for a dedicated circuit for some purpose isn't so much because that circuit needs all the power of one circuit, but rather, to protect other circuits from possible faults of the circuit type having the requirement. One of my plans for my next house is to have all outside circuits separate from all inside circuits. I have no specific reason for that. It just feels like a better way to do it.

I must confess that my motives in starting this thread were far from pure; at the core was a disagrement between the sign guy and myself. It probably didn't help that I ... the budding new EC ... had quoted assuming I would just tie into a nearby light.

Casual conversation in the chat room produced 'first take' replies that the sign guy was right, theat the signs had to have their own circuit, anywhere, anytime. Conversations with two parties at the city revealed they were happy with the sign being fed by the lighting circuit, capacity allowing.

As for the job itself ... further conversations with the customer revealed that he has further sign plans, so I decided to humor the sign guy, and make the dedicated run on the face of the building. This is being very time-consuming, as I need to paint the pipe to blend in as best I can; the location couldn't be more visible if I tried. It will be a cinch, however, to add th future signs to this circuit; I'm including the appropriate junction boxes and splices. (Now this is where Wago's ot In-sures really shine!)

Not that it mattered; the sign guy made sure to call for inspection today - I had told him Friday - and the inspectors' greeting was "now what are you tying these signs into?" Now, I was facing away as he approached; as soon as I turned, and he saw my face, the inspectors' demeanor changed completely to "Hey, I know you from the local IAEI!" Yup, and I'm even on the committee there, and part of the committee that's writing our local ammendments for the 2008 code. The sign guy certainly wasn't expecting THAT response from the inspector. He was delighted with my explanation, and signed off the job .... though the pipe wasn't quite yet complete.

If there's a moral to this story ... perhaps those dues, and active participation, made for a positive relationship.

As for my quote ... I'll honor it, even though it might not (quite) cover my material expenses. I'm eating my time on this one. Call it a lesson learned ... and laying the foundation for a very good relationship with this customer. He knows I'm in the hole with this one, and I'm confident I'll have an chance to recoup on future jobs.

Reno:
Now that you fessed up more info...
I too have connected signs to existing site lighting circuits that had available capacity. Circuit ID & load calcs to Twp w/permit apps; usually no issues!

Wait a cotton pickin minute here. 600.5(A) is not one of those vague subject to interpretation Sections of the code. Pretty straight forward."The outlet(s) shall be supplied by a branch circuit rated at least 20 amperes that supplies no other load." I don't care where the sign is, inside or outside, the rule applies. It should be noted that this has nothing to do with the show window lighting. Why would any inspector choose to break the rules?

600.5(A)

George, you're quite right, the code is 'plain as day.' Alas, it also specifically applies to the entries of tenant spaces (that's the entire sentence before the part you quoted).

So, it seems clear the 'no other load' circuit is only requirede to be provided at the entrance to tenant spaces ... which also suggests that the circuit would be from the tenants' meter.

I just don't see this specific application applying to signs in other locations, signs that might be for the entire building (and thus off the 'house' meter) ... or, for that matter, any requirement that a sign actually use the provided circuit.

Now, if the code panel wanted to say "signs will be powered by dedicated circuits," they could have said so; they were certainly able to do this with the furnace circuit. Instead, all they said, in effect, is that there will be a receptacle by the front door.

Nor does this section distinguish between a temporary sign, and a permanent one. Now, maybe I'm a bit jaded ... but it makes no sense to require a dedicated circuit for a 1/2 amp beer sign over a side window. Naturally, that might also be where the 'show window' issue might arise.

As long as 600.5(A) specifically mentions entryways, location does matter.

While we've passed the submission period for the 2011 code cycle, it's never to early to prepare for 2014. If anyone wants the code to require all signs to be powered by dedicated circuits, they should make the proposal.

I bet if you did a survey you would find 600.5(A) is largely ignored. It has been in the code, virtually forever (at least the early 70s) and I am not sure I have ever seen a sign circuit with no other outlets. Granted I did not do a lot of "retail" but "commercial" covers a lot of ground.
I can guarantee the strip mall bay we rented when my wife had a store did not have a dedicated sign circuit. The sign was on with the overhead lighting in the front part of the store because it all came on with the same switch. (four 48" lay ins and a sign with four F40s in it as I recall).

Oddly enough, this is one requirement that I have seen complied with, here ... at least, in new construction of 'strip' commercial rentals. That is, every ORIGINAL tenant space WAS provided with a circuit that fed nothing but a single receptacle, either above the door, or on the facade.

Naturally, over time and multiple tenant improvements, doors get moved, walls added and removed, and circuits tapped into. That 'sign circuit' is almost always used to feed the reception counter.

I agree that the requirement is not new; I just find it interesting the way it has been applied: to say that signs need to be on a sign-only circuit.

I talked to my wife about this and she said the sign on the facade was actually on the house panel. Her "open" sign and the other plug ins were on with the front of the store overheads. The "show window" circuit also fed the two wall receptacles in the front of the store but they were sort of close to the window.
Can the 20a sign circuit serve multiple tenants?
That would seem to be the case here. The landlord owned the sign can and the tenant bought the lens with their name/logo or whatever on it.

New construction/renovation up here has a 20 amp dedicated sign circuit at the storefront facade/soffit/canopy etc. This has been since at least the 60's/70's. Also, IF the space had a tenant with signage that exceeded 16 amps, an additional circuit would be installed.

Show window receptacles/circuitry dedicated as required based on storefront. (But NEVER enough for liquor stores)

I agree with Reno; 600.5(A) has nothing to do with any signage except the storefront, be it soffit/facade/canopy.

Reno:
Yes, modifications for tenant changes causes a lot of havoc with existing circuitry, and the temptation of 'snagging' the sign feed, or the show window feed for something 'new' is common....but most if not all of us inspectors catch it.

Well... just looking this over again, I guess I can see how the NEC could cause some confusion.
For branch circuit load calcs, 220.14[f] states that sign and outline lighting outlets shall be calculated at a minimum of 1200VA for each required branch circuit specified in 600.5[a].
If it’s 120V, that’s only 10A for the entire circuit?
Then 600.5[a] on the other hand, appears to be written in the singular, even beginning with "Required Branch Circuit".
Seems like there also should be at least some mention in there that sign lighting should be considered a continuous load.

Couldn’t someone wiring a commercial building with several public entrances and unknown future occupancy or signage, read that 600.5[a] requires only one branch circuit with a minimum 20A rating and no other outlets for all sign outlets for each of these entrances?
If the specs called for several outlets at each entrance for future sign use, couldn’t that lead to a situation with many sign outlets of unknown maximum wattage on this one branch circuit? How do you know that the load won’t be over 16A on a 120V circuit?
This seems like it would leave a lot up to the discretion of the person doing the wiring.

Kjay:
Remember....the NEC is not a design manual.

On a 'plain vanilla box space'; as an AHJ, I have to plan review based on code compliance of mandatory required items. Hence, a single 120 volt, 20 amp 'sign' circuit is compliant. It would be up to the tenant fit-up plans to indicate exterior signage loads, and if any additional circuits would be required, which would have to be code compliant.

Yes, wording within the NEC can be questionable to say the least.

Bear in mind 240.4(D) keeps you from getting in too much trouble with 14 or 12 ga wire. The 80% max is built in to the maximum O/C protection allowed. That still doesn't relieve you of the article 210 limitations but they are really unenforceable if you have receptacles and lamp holders.

It is not unusual for me to learn something from this BB. After reading all the comments I have revised my thinking to consider that the need is in the code for a branch circuit for a sign or outline lighting. The calculated load for this circuit is not less than 1200va. I do agree that if you have several small sign they could all be installed on the same circuit and they should not exceed 16a. by virtue of the fact that this would be considered a continuous load. I think there should be only sign outlets on this circuit. The load could exceed 1200va. if the load were 16a.- 1920va would be the calculated load for the service.

The sign load is also dependent on the type of business.
The last auto dealer that we did got a sign that took over 5KW.
Some of these things get out of hand, especially when the "sign designers" decide to use incandescent for everything.

Also keep in mind that more and more signage is getting electronic displays in it; that adds to the loads and usually doesn't like sharing a circuit with anything else.