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Posted By: rowd 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/03/07 01:06 PM
In the illustration linked from the NEC it shows 4 feet between receptacles.The code states "Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space."

Clear as mud. once again the NEC manages to make a ruling even more muddled than it ever was to begin with.


(1) Wall Counter-top Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter-top space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space. See related Illustration

Exception: Receptacle outlets shall not be required on a wall directly behind a range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink in the installation described in Figure 210.52(C)(1).

[Linked Image from code.necplus.org]
Posted By: rowd Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/03/07 01:28 PM
Sorry.....Here is the illustration

[Linked Image from electricalphotos.com]
Posted By: JohnJ0906 Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/03/07 01:55 PM
Exactly what is unclear?
Posted By: renosteinke Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/03/07 02:47 PM
Seems pretty clear to me ... unless you are not sure how these things are measured.

Receptacle spacing is determined by measuring, as it were, along the baseboard (or, with counters, the backsplash). There is no allowance for the height a receptacle may be above the floor (or counter). Things that interrupt the 'usable' path (doors, sinks, ranges) are not included in the measure. If the path takes a turn, the measure follows the turn - as shown in that corner.

Legal line aside .... go buy a cheap toaster. If the cord can't reach a receptacle, you probably need to add one at that point.
Posted By: ghost307 Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/04/07 01:48 PM
I always figured that it was to make sure that there was always a receptacle within 2' of any point along the wall to go along with the standard length of appliance cords.

The 12" countertop rule probably arose because folks started putting a short piece of countertop between the stove and the end wall...and some genius ran an extention cord to it for the toaster.
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/04/07 07:41 PM
The key word is point. No point shall be more than 2 feet.
This same confusion occurs when receptacles in habitable rooms are to be no more than six feet from a point. The receptacles are twelve feet apart.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/05/07 01:50 AM
It should be noted, they say no point "along the wall line"...
It is not a radial sweep across the width of the counter.
I have heard arguments about corners.
Posted By: Jim M Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/06/07 12:58 AM
I have heard of some that did not interpret this measurement as being along the back part of the countertop and actually wanted a receptacle mounted on the 24" depth of the side wall where the countertop meet the wall.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 11/06/07 01:28 AM
You just defined the argument. It doesn't say "back" wall. wink
Posted By: SteveFehr Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 12/05/07 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
It should be noted, they say no point "along the wall line"...
It is not a radial sweep across the width of the counter.
I have heard arguments about corners.
I think it should be changed, though, to "any point on the counter" within 2', though. What good is a rule to allow 2' cords to be used anywhere if they still can only be used butted up against the wall?

I know, I know, counters are 2' deep, and we'd need a continuous outlet for this. Really, it begs the question ... why the $&#&#$^%$^ are they only 2' cords to begin with? Why can't I get a blender with a 4' cord and a lamp with a 12' cord? Why always the rinky short cord?
Posted By: leland Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 12/06/07 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Alan Nadon
The key word is point. No point shall be more than 2 feet.
This same confusion occurs when receptacles in habitable rooms are to be no more than six feet from a point. The receptacles are twelve feet apart.


Yup my very 1st house. I'm sure someone is still wondering... "why are there so many damn outlets".
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 12/06/07 05:31 AM
Way back in 75 when I did my first "owner builder" addition I misunderstood the 6' rule and put a receptacle every 6 feet along one long wall. My buddy asked me if I was getting a row of pinball machines.
Posted By: ghost307 Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 12/06/07 02:12 PM
My nephew did just that when he drew up his new house.

I asked him why he had so many outlets and he told me that he was following the 6' rule that he kept hearing me talk about. Granted, he never asked what the 6' rule was, he just assumed that he knew what it said.

I trust that everyone knows about the word "assume"; rest assured that he now knows it well.
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 12/07/07 06:49 PM
Short cords on kitchen appliances were mandated because the longer cords would hang over the edge of the counter and children would pull coffee pots or electric fry pans down on themselves.
The same safety logic that prompted this was turned upside down when they allowed receptacles on the face of the counter 210.52(C)(5)
Go figure.
Posted By: BackInTheHabit Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 04/16/08 12:24 AM
NEC 210.52(C)(5)

NEC 210.52(C)
Posted By: renosteinke Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 04/16/08 12:53 AM
You know, I've seen most everything on kitchen counters .... mixers, toasters, irons, even small clothes washers ... but I've never seen a tape measure sitting around! laugh

Put the receptacles, first and foremost, where they will be useful. This is called 'good design.' Then, if you must, add a few to fill in large gaps. Imagine: both code compliance and a happy customer.

I've had a few customers ask me "why so many?" I then explain how they're placed for the customers' use. Visiting the site a few months later, I always get rave reviews ... it seems some of the 'oddest' receptacle locations quickly became the customers' favorite, and are always in use.

In my experience, time spent hounding the customer for details as to their use is time well spent. For example, if you know a bed will be centered on the window, it makes sense to place a receptacle on either side of the window. Yet, how often do we see the plans indicate a single receptacle dead center, under the window?

I once did an office, where I met furious criticism at 'finish,' when the customer saw I had place some receptacles about 5 ft up the wall. Why? Because I knew file cabinets would be placed there ... and we all have horror stories about trying to get to that plug behind a ton of old files!
A week after occupancy, the sarcasm of the boss was more than canceled when he heard the secretary sing the praises of the 'genius' who put the coffeemaker receptacle over the file cabinets, where it could be reached. That same boss began to ask for these receptacle in every office remodel afterwards smile
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 210.52 Clear as Mud - 04/16/08 05:30 AM
I got beat up by an office manager about putting the data jacks 3' off the floor but they ended up above the desk and that sure made the road warriors with laptops happy. Sometimes you just need to think like the end user when you are placing receptacles.
In my kitchen (on the dining room side of a peninsula) I ended up with a dummy cabinet front with a door but it was only about 6" deep. I put a receptacle in there, mostly because I needed a splice there and we use it for battery chargers. It ended up being one of out most handy outlets
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