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Posted By: Jps1006 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 12:13 AM
In addition to my required kitchen countertop circuit, the customer wants a 220-volt receptacle for an Italian appliance. This is similar to a toaster or something, but 220-volt. Am I not required by NEC to GFI protect?

What do they do in Europe? are they required to protect kitchen counter top receptacles with GFI's?
Posted By: electure Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 12:40 AM
210.8(A) All 125 volt.......
No GFI required.

But look out.

210.6(A)(2)Limits the voltage in dwellings to nominal 120 volts for cord-and-plug-connected loads of 1,440VA or less, or less than 1/4 hp.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 02:14 AM
That is an excellent question. I have never encountered such a situation. I guess you learn something new every day.
Excellent answer also. I've run into this a coupla time when people want to use "portable" kitchen appliances like toaster and coffee brewers that they bring her from out of the US.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 04:03 AM
I don't see a huge hazard. Canada has mandated multiwire, split receptacles in the kitchen for years and they don't have a huge body count. That is still 240v on a single yoke. If the customes says he thinks the "kettle" is about 1500w the code problem goes away. I seem to recall the Brits use some pretty hefty kettles.
Nobody wants to wait too long for their tea. [Linked Image]

Being Italian it may be an expresso machine.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 01-08-2007).]
OK, why not do it? It isn't likely to do much false tripping, and might save someone's life. $60 breaker vs. electrocution. Code is a minimum, not recommended design practice. What is the intent behind this part of the code?

How many homes have you done lately with the code minimum lighting?

Thanks... I'm done now. :-)
Posted By: mikesh Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 04:59 PM
I find it interesting that it has taken the CEC until the 2006 edition to mandate GFCI protection around kitchen sinks and frankly don't really think that is necessary. I guess somewhere someone has been electrocuted in the kitchen by touching a faulty appliance and the sink. or washed a plugged in toaster. The CEC only requires GFCI protection for 15 and 20 amp receptacles. In Canada at least the Italian 230 volt, Pannini maker could have a receptacle installed without gfci protection. Now whether or not the appliance needs a special approval will depend on the lable on the appliance. Perhaps there is a standard that would not approve a counter top toaster operating at 230 volts for home use.
Incidently if for example a coffe maker was installed on the counter and was connected in such a way where it could not be easily moved on the counter, then if the receptacle was located behind the coffee maker it would not require GFCI protection.
Posted By: RobbieD Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 10:25 PM
In Ontario,Canada it is required to have all receptacles, that are located in kitchens and installed within 1m of a kitchen sink, protected by a GFCI. So if this appliance was within this distance it would need to be protected.

The CEC which, covers different provinces in Canada states that only 120V, 15 and 20 amp receptacles require this.

When I was overseas almost every panel that I worked in had those residual current devices. The buildings that I worked in were small. Sorta sucked troubleshooting because if a neutral in any circuit would touch ground the main would trip.

The appliance will most likely require approval for use in the US by the AHJ.

Myself I would GFCI it if it was close to the sink, if its located somewhere else then I wouldn't.

Wish I knew more about the US codes to help you out.



[This message has been edited by RobbieD (edited 01-09-2007).]
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/09/07 11:52 PM
Where do AHJ's approve appliances? If it is not fixed in place when the AHJ issues the CO they couldn't care less what a homeowner brings in later.
Posted By: RobbieD Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/10/07 12:59 AM
I'm not sure about the approval marking thing. All I know is that it is illegal here in Canada to sell an electrical appliance that is not listed by one of the approved agencies.
I just always assumed that the insurance company would give you a hard time if your house burnt down and they concluded that the cause was an appliance fire from an unlisted appliance that you knew wasn't listed by an approved agency.

But I guess they give you a hard time about all claims anyway.
Posted By: electech Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/10/07 01:37 AM
It would need approval by CSA or an NRTL. In this case it would be indicated by a CSA mark, or an NRTL mark - most likely an ETL or UL mark with a "C" next to it for Canada or "U" for U.S.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/10/07 03:01 AM
I have never seen the appliance police. Maybe that is just a northern thing.
As far as I know I could go buy some parts at the hardware store and make a lamp without fearing a SWAT team would raid my house.
I hope they never come after all my home built computers. I might get 20 years in the joint.

BTW what is a NRTL? I know OSHA has a list but are they the ONLY labs that are recognized and who "recognizes" these labs?
Most European appliances will be CE marked which is a self administered testing protocol. I know Jim Pauley says that is not the same as the U/L mark but what is the difference? On the other hand TUV Germany (and perhaps some other European labs) are OSHA recognized.
When I see some of the crap that U/L does sell it's mark on I really wonder if there is anything to this "listing" but money.
Posted By: RobbieD Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/10/07 05:22 AM
LOL, that is too funny! LOL

No there are no appliance police breaking down doors here, lol. Just people concerned about public safety. I have heard of a couple of businesses taken to court and fined for selling cheap china non approved or counterfeit csa/ulc approval markings though. I think that they were fixtures that were made of cheap plastic that didn't have a high enough temperature rating and they were causing fires.

I will list the regs of what we have here in Ontario for you because you seem interested in what we do up North.

Specifically, the Code states –
Rule: 2-022 Sale or Other Disposal and Use
No person shall advertise, display, offer for sale, connect to a source of electrical power, or use any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Rule 2-024.

Rule: 2-024 Approval of Electrical Equipment
The Ontario Electrical Safety Code recognizes certification organizations accredited by the Standards Council of Canada to approve electrical equipment. Only equipment bearing one of the recognized marks is approved.

ESA has the power to lay charges for selling unapproved products under the Electricity Act. The maximum fine is $50,000 or prison for up to one year. However, the Act does not contain clear powers for ESA to order products be quarantined, seized or destroyed.

So basically they its not allowed but they don't have much power unless you are selling these products.
gfretwell, those are good questions.

"NRTL" is short for 'nationally recognised testing lab." Oddly enough, this is a term 'invented' by UL at a time when they felt that, in most cases, they had no other competition. UL reps encouraged government bodies (of every size) and specification writers to put this term in their rules.

Then things began to change.

The vast expansion of the Federal Government in the '70's in turn led to various laws 'encouraging' Federal agencies to adopt already existing 'generally recognised industry standards.' One result of these laws was an explosion in sundry industry and trade associations - all of whom saw an opportunity to get 'on the inside track.'

Every trade group has a somewhat different focus. This, as well as UL striving for "ISO 9000" certification, in turn opened the door to an assortment of testing and certification bodies.

UL claims to 'test for the public safety.' UL has absolutely no interest in the performance, quality, or design of a product submitted. If UL 'listed' automobiles, the same standards would apply to bith Ferrari and Yugo ... but no one would ever imagine that the two were "equivalent."

Until VERY recently, UL pretended that NEMA did not exist. UL had it's own classifications (for instance) for enclosures; saying "Nema 4" meant nothing to UL. UL did, however, use this as an example of 'what made UL special.'
Unlike the common practice of letting the manufacture certify such things, UL stressed that UL was independent, did their own tests, AND followed this up with regular factory inspectiona and re-examination of products. UL asserted that this was more reliable than simply trusting to the manufacturer (and the market) alone.

Sometimes -as in the case of fire sprinkler heads- the UL mark says a lot about the product. UL has been heavily involved in the testing of those for a very long time, and many of the tests are 'performance' tests. In other cases -you home computer being one- the UL mark means very little beyond 'it ought not shock you.'

That same home computer, however, is likely to have a legion of other certifications, many of which relate to the performance of it.

These days, "NRTL" can mean most anything the AHJ wants it to mean. UL no longer has the near-monopoly that they once had. If another lab (and there are some) got ISO recognition for testing to a particular standard, there would be little reason for an AHJ to refuse to recognise the new guys' label.
To that end, many government agencies compile lists of the specific certifications that they are looking for.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/12/07 06:54 PM
We got into this with packaged spa "listings". There are a lot of "labs" that list spas but the real question is are they nationally recognized and by who?
Posted By: IanR Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/15/07 02:32 PM
This is an interesting question. As far as not being listed, that is more a concern for a retailer not the user.
They probably purchased the appliance overseas and brought it back with them, as I did. I couldn't find a fast enough kettle over here in the States, so I brought one back from Scotland the last time I was over there. There is something to be said for a 3Kw kettle [Linked Image]
Posted By: Jps1006 Re: 220-volt counter top appliance... GFI? - 01/15/07 11:19 PM
Thanks all.

Nice Scott. I had the 210.8 and was wondering if I was missing something. I did miss the 210.6, I'll have to look at this equipment. I was just surprised to see that it wouldn't be required. I'd never thought about it until this.

Maybe my follow-up is for the nonUS section, but what do the non US 220-volt regions do for countertop kitchen appliances? Do you have device or breaker GFI's?

Then... if it's safe enough for them, why can't I hook it up here if it is less than 1400 watts?
JPS, most parts of the world use something called an "RCD," which is essentially a GFI. That said, the RCD is usually installed for the entire panel - not an individual circuit - and has a higher trip level, perhaps 30mA (as compared to the 5mA of a GFI).

Almost all 'normal' circuits are protected by this RCD. Certain circuits (such as a furnace) are not protected at all, while others (like a bath) have a much lower setting.

So, one could make the argument that a Euro appliance is designed to operate on a circuit protected by at least an AFCI ... and would probably work well on a GFI as well.

It is also safe to say that the authors of the NEC never considered that you might have a cord connected 240v appliance on your countertop. This is one case where have to look at things in context, and make a judgment call. If I were asked to quote this job, I would assume a GFI in my pricing.

[This message has been edited by renosteinke (edited 01-27-2007).]
Nice question......my brain thanks you
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