(2) Additional Locations

(C) Where one or more lighting outlets are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each level, and landing level that includes an entry way, to control the lighting outlets where the stairway between the floor levels has six risers or more.

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Would this require a 3-way switching device in both an unfinished attic and basement?

I don't think it would because is clearly says "landing level that includes an entry way."

If the stairs are permanent, I'd say 'yes.' I would not apply this to 'pull-down' attic ladders, or to 'root cellar' type covered steps to the basement.

IMO the NEC never requires 3 ways.

You could meet that requirement with single poles controlling lights on each respective landing.

Your customer will not like it but it is more of a design issue than a code issue.

Shock,

I would consider the basement or attic a level regardless of entry way. The entry way wording is a modifier to landing, not level.

Following iwire's letter of the law interpretaion, where are we even required to have stairway illumination according to NEC?

210.70 (A) (2) (A) requires the need for a switch-controlled lighting outlet on stairways.

Shock:

I have to agree with Reno, and Bob (Iwire)

Basically, a 'good' design (also referred to as common sense) would want a switch at each level of permanent stairs.

I can't remember when I saw an attic with stairway, or a basement NOT have a 3-way system.

John

Sorry, misplaced my 2002 CD and'99 is layed out suprisingly different. (got lazy and didn't open a book or even think... short-lived mistake around here)

John, how could you agree with reno and iwire? Reno say's a 3-way is required and Bob says it isn't.

You have to have a switch on each level. So your options are:

(2) single poles operating (2) or more seperate lighting openings,

(2) 3-ways operating (1) or more lighting openings

Occupancy sensor or some other automatically controlled system.



[This message has been edited by Jps1006 (edited 12-07-2006).]

JPS:

OK, perhaps I have to clear the fog.....

3-ways are NOT required by the NEC, as Bob said, leading to the SP at each 'level', and multiple lampholders/luminaires.

Design wise, and common sense, and basically what a 'good ec does is install 3-ways, 4-ways, etc.

John

I agree the 3 way on the steps is really a design issue but I would want the EC to try to explain this design choice, with a straight face.
"OK so the plan is, you turn on the bottom light, go upstairs, turn on the top light, then go down and turn off the bottom light and go back up, turning off that light as you go on down the hall".

If the EC can say "yes that was my plan" without one of us laughing I guess I have to accept it.

I remember living in a 2 floor apartment once that didn't have 3 ways... the stairs were right as you walk in the door to the right, so the entryway light covered the bottom floor.. but then once you got upstairs, you had to get to the opposite wall of the hallway to turn on the upstairs light...

I always did think it was annoying having to walk down or up in the dark, or just leave it on

If I had steps the light would be on a motion detector up stairs so the light came on as you approached from above or as you got to the steps on the bottom.
I like motion lights though, I have them everywhere in my home. You can walk around just about anywhere, inside or out, at night without ever flipping a switch and you are never in the dark.

That would be the real test.

I also would want to know how many repeat customers this same EC will get.

I don't want anyone to think I am suggesting 3-ways are not the way to go, only that the NEC does not require them.

I agree that any good design has 3-way switches in both attics and basements, but that's not what the Code says. That's all I was getting at. Often times I run into a staircase to an attic that has no walls built up in the attic and something has to be built to accomidate (sp?) the switch. Otherwise the switch gets mounted in the roof joists. And if the staircase comes up in the middle of the attic, and the ceiling is 10' well then where do I put my switch? I do alot of spec houses and often times the bare minimum is all that gets done in these homes. Very rarely do I meet the homeowners afterwards.

Actually, I said nothing about neding a three-way switch.

An arrangement such as I saw overseas would be acceptable here.

I saw an arrangement where every landing had a simple push-button. Push the button, and you had light for a very limited time, on that level only. Typically, there was just enough time to walk to the next push-button, on the next level, before you were returned to darkness.

Such an arrangement would, as I read the code, be acceptable here.

First--I believe the section does not require lighting outlets on the stairs as it says "Where one or more lighting outlets are installed for interior stairways...", it doesn't say they must be installed.

Second--If you decide to install lighting outlet(s) for the interior stairway(s), and the interior stairway(s) are 6 or more risers, that each lighting outlet installed for lighting the stairway needs to be controllable from each floor level and landing level with an entry way. This means three way and/or four way switching is required.

I don't think the wording allows for separate switching for separate lighting outlets for the same stairway.

Third--If you install lighting for any interior stairway, the three-way/four-way switching is required. The section does not differentiate stairways to different areas of the house. Are pull down stairs a stairway-not sure.

Look up a couple lines.
210.72(A)(1)(a) At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways ... yada yada

+1 Steve.

" that each lighting outlet installed for lighting the stairway needs to be controllable from each floor level and landing level with an entry way. "

Tells me, no matter then number of lights, each and every one needs to be controlled from EACH floor. Not either floor...