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Posted By: bwise121 Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 03:42 AM
I'm working on a condo for the owner and we noticed that the common wall has no outlets/switches on it. This wall is about 15 feet long in the master bedroom.

Is there a code that prohibits an outlet on this wall? Condo is approximately 20 years old and in Sacramento, CA.

Many thanks,
Byron
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 06:43 AM
It sounds more like a violation of 210.52 not to have them.
Posted By: walrus Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 10:40 AM
Maybe they thought it would reduce noise between the units by not placing outlets there??
Posted By: ShockMe77 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 01:57 PM
Sheetrocker perhaps buried them?
Posted By: Mike Wescoatt Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 02:31 PM
Could be related to fire rating of the common wall (usually 1HR) or have to do with the legal seperation of the units since one person would own 1 layer of sheetrock and 1/2 of the 2x4...

I can see it now... my lawyer needs to talk to your lawyer about your romex that you have running through my half of the 2x4...
Posted By: ghost307 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 02:37 PM
It's probably a fire-rated wall and they didn't want to go to the extra expense of adding receptacles and then restoring the fire rating.
Fortunately; there is no place in the Code that says that the requirements are waived if someone is too cheap to meet them.
Posted By: ShockMe77 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 02:53 PM
There are several exceptions in article 210.52, but nothing that forbids receptacles on a fire-rated wall.
Posted By: Roger Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 03:26 PM
Excerpt from the UL Fire Resistance Directory,
Quote
boxes shall not be installed on opposite side of walls or partitions of staggered stud construction unless "Wall Opening Protective Materials" are installed according to the requirements of their Classification.

And I also agree that this does not eliminate the requiremnts of 210.52.

Roger
Posted By: Steve T Re: Common wall on condo - 12/07/06 03:52 PM
Typically UL fire barrier separation walls has verbage that says boxes on opposite sides of the wall need some kind of fire separation. The distance used in many assemblies is 24 inches apart to say that the boxes are not back to back.

There is no good reason why the receptacles are not installed.

If sound was the issue, they make putty pads. Putty pads are also used to achieve the fire rating separation.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/08/06 12:35 AM
The 'common wall' (fire wall) between units has to comply with 210.52 PERIOD

No exceptions/variations for the 'firewall'

Rated boxes; if 24" or less on opposing wall faces, firestopping (putty pads) required.

Ceilings are another issue.

John
Posted By: HLCbuild Re: Common wall on condo - 12/08/06 02:35 AM
The firewall between townhouses in this area are commonly constructed of coreboard drywall set in "H" channel with resiliant firring screwed to it on both sides, some thin insulation, and 5/8" firecode drywall applied to that. There is no cavity for the boxes. So builders usually stretch the 12 ft. limit on the front and rear wall of the room or add a floor box. We are told "no penetrations" are to be made to the rated wall. Even the floor joists are run parallel to the wall without attachment to the rated wall.
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Common wall on condo - 12/08/06 04:36 AM
I've only worked on something similar to this once, and that was an apartment complex rewire.. Shared walls got 4S boxes (or 1900's for you east coasters [Linked Image] ) with a 3M pad. All of our NM-B's passing into or through the wall had to be sleeved in FMC with Firestop caulking around the wall penetration. ¾" drywall was used on shared walls as well
Posted By: bwise121 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/08/06 05:47 AM
Very interesting responses. Unfortunately, I had already put in a switch on this wall to two recessed cans I installed. I did notice that there was an outlet on the floor in the middle of the wall. Any suggestions on what I can do at this point? I used a regular cut-in blue box for the switch. Everything in the condo is pulled in romex as expected.

Thanks
Posted By: electure Re: Common wall on condo - 12/09/06 10:41 PM
As I understand it, given a 1 hr rated wall, then the deal is:
If it is a steel box 16 sq inches or less and there are not more than 100 sq inches combined total of openings in 100 square feet of wall, then it does not need a fire pad as fill for the annular space.
PROVIDED:
1)Outlet boxes on the opposite side have a separation horizontally of not less than 24".
or
2) It's got solid fire blocking in between the boxes on the opposite side
or
3)If it's got loose fill cellulose or mineral fiber insulation, it can have a horizontal separation not less than the depth of the wall cavity from a box on the opposite side.
or
4) It's a box made of any material.listed and tested for the purpose.

If the rating is greater than 1 hr, or it 1hr and doesn't meet the requirements above, then you'll have to firepad a metal box.

If you've put in a cut-in box, or Madison clipped it a box, steel or not, it has to come out.
Boxes in fire-rated walls can't be supported by the drywall.

A regular blue plastic box won't do, regardless.

It's good to see some concern over this important subject of fire ratings. Too many guys don't even notice, or just don't care.

If your floor outlet is within 18" of the wall, then it can be counted as one of the required outlets. 210.52(A)(3) Unfortunately, if you have a 15 foot wall, a minimum of 2 would be required. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-09-2006).]
Posted By: earlydean Re: Common wall on condo - 12/10/06 06:54 PM
Check this UL article:
http://www.ul.com/regulators/sepoct2000.pdf
Posted By: brianl703 Re: Common wall on condo - 12/18/06 10:57 PM
HLCbuild, in my townhouse (in Manassas) they did provide a cavity for boxes, there is the party wall which is as you described, but there are studs and another layer of drywall. They also put insulation in the wall, too, believe it or not. Incidentally, the party wall is attached to the framing of the house with metal "L" brackets which I'm told will melt in the event of a fire, preventing the party wall from being pulled down.

Apparently it works pretty well since the townhouse across the street caught fire and pretty much had to be torn all the way down. The party wall on either side was still intact.
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