Has anyone noticed the subtle deletion of "severe" from 250.64? The way I read it now, you need to protect GEC's sized 4 and larger from physical damage whereas previously it only had to be protected from severe physical damage. We may end up needing to put just about every GEC in conduit...

[This message has been edited by markp (edited 09-07-2005).]

Thats a great catch! Nicely done!

"Exposed to physical damage" is always going to be a judgement call. This change has certainly tossed some mud in the water. Basically if you can't run the #4 without a raceway, you can't run it is PVC either because that says 352.10(F) Exposed. For exposed work where not subject to physical damage if identified for such use"

And yet 250-64(b) seems to imply that a #6 or smaller can be protected with PVC if exposed to physical damage.

Someone explain to me how a GEC Indoors, behind a transformer, going up a wall, would be exposed to physical damage?

Or for that matter, how does a GEC originating in a panel, going up to building steel, get damaged?

Dnk...

Dnk, I think we all agree there are places where a wiring method is not subject to any physical damage. This question pertains to the difference between severe physical damage and <some other kind of> physical damage.
This is just going to be a judgement call.

I know G, just curious if any one has seen this happen and how.

I can't imagine how a GEC can be damaged, other than blatant negligence.

Dnk...

Usually GECs get damaged by lawn mowers or other equipment running up next to the wall from what I see. I can't see a problem inside a building unless it is a shop or warehouse where there is some heavy material being stored against or moving by an unprotected run.

Does GEC stand for grounding equipment conductor? I am used to seing as EGC. I guess its probably which coast you live on.

GEC = Grounding electrode conductor
EGC = Equipment grounding conductor

GEC is for connecting your grounding electrodes together to form your grounding electrode system.

EGC is the wire/conduit to bond equipment.

[This message has been edited by dmattox (edited 11-06-2005).]

Paul, as Dmattox points out, they are two different conductors performing entirely different functions.

Read part III of article 250 for GEC; and parts V, VI, and VII for EGC.

Roger

dmattox,

Don't mean to be nit picky, but I have seen some get confused by this point. The GEC is used to connect the grounding electrode system to the service grounded conductor and/or equipment grounding conductor (see the definition in article 100). The conductor(s) used to connect the grounding electrodes together are bonding jumpers (See 250.53(C))

Edit: because I realized that by oversimplifying I had introduced some inaccuracies in my post.

[This message has been edited by eprice (edited 11-08-2005).]

Protection is a dicy subject. Now how do we decipher between "subject to physical damage" and "severe physical damage" when there is no definition of either.

I think it is a great move on the part of the CMP.

I have never seen a damaged gec in my travels. Has anybody here ever seen one? (not including the #12 one the phone company bonds the demark with). Maybe another bone thrown to the metal conduit boys.