This mostly for the Jersey Boys.

OK, I can see not having to install the WP GFI receptacle outside within 25' of the compressor under the rehab and not having the workspace req. in front of the disconnect. However if you install a brand new HVAC system do you think that Rehab or not rehab, that outlet and space should be required?

I would "think" the GFCI is required (rehab or not), clearance would be required for NEW, but not for rehab.

The AHJ would be the one that "knows" the right answer

Have you read:
Rules That Make Sense — New Jersey’s Rehabilitation Subcode http://www.nj.gov/dca/codes/rehab/pioneerart.shtml

Give it an eyeball or two.

Harold & Celtic:
Good topic, & a great link.

"Rehab" IMHO, is one of the most abused UCC sections. Without typing a long litney, the following is my opinion, and that of some other AHJ's.

Installing a new HVAC CU would require compliance with the current NEC at the time of application. (2005 now). Dependent on the existing conditions of the structure/jobsite some 'clearance' issues may be waived.

Replacement CU basically is 'the best that can be accomplished' under existing conditions. MOCP has to be correct, wiring method has to be in conformance, and clearances are judgemental.

"Rehab" was intended to return downtrodden structures to useful purposes. It's being 'abused' in some instances, and results in what may be best said as 'hostile conditions'. Putting a $400K 'addition' on a cottage and attempting to play the "rehab card" for NEC compliance in the 'addition' was a common issue. (Which was discussed and corrected)

Celtic, Thank You for the link, it's easier reading then 5:23 text, and should help out anyone who reads it.

John

As far as I know, a GFCI receptacle within 25' is always required when installing a new split-type air conditioning system.

Article 210.63

Shock:
You're right; on new install, it's required. But, if it's a replacement cu unit, the GFI is not required to be installed. Harold also mentioned clearances (workspace) for the disco on a replacement cu job, and NO clearances are not required to meet current NEC on 'rehab' work.

John

How far do you think I can stretch (sp?) the rehab issue...I want to put a CU on the side on my house - being in the city, clearance is +/- 34"; code is probably 36" (I don't know, just guessing).

The houses on this block are all 50 years old. Do you think I would be "rehabbed" in?

******
Speaking of CUs....last summer I bid a job (new McMansion in the city) where the original EC walked, the HO didn't like my number, etc....

here's a sidebar to that same job (which I am glad I didn't get)
HO: The CU will be put in the yard/rear of house....
ME: Good because I don't think you have the clearance for a side install
HO: ...after the inspection passes, it's getting moved to the side.
Me: Really!

LOL.


[This message has been edited by Celtic (edited 05-27-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Celtic (edited 05-27-2006).]

Celtic:
Are you talking 'clearance' from your lot/property line, or clearance for the disco??

Your lot line clearances are under Zoning, not electrical. 5:23 (UCC) is NOT a zoning code.

As to HO's 'moving' stuff after final inspection; the Elec AHJ could get them for work without a permit, but again, locations are not my thing. Heck I had people taking the "UGLY" bubble covers off & installing the old flappers.

John

Hotline1,
I am talking property lines:

- no, it might not be an issue for my house
For me, I would have to get an AHJ to sign off on it.

- yes, that would be a zoning issue for the new home.
I understand about bubble covers...my point with this guy is ~ who's gonna pay and who's gonna do the work?
The HO might want to pay for the relocate...but how could I, as the EC, do the job? Take out another electrical permit, but break zoning laws?
Like I said, this is one I am glad I didn't get!

Is 5.23 available online?

Celtic:
5:23 is NOT available online, and it's not provided on CD/DVD, DCA is still in the stone age.

A Blue Book is available from DCA for $40.00, and on top you have to subscribe to the 'update service' to keep it current. They send (mail) replacement pages when they make ANY changes. (Punctuation, grammar, & additions/deletions. I can get you the address/name if you want it.

BTW, it's not something that anyone I know would even say is close to 'easy reading'. It's LAW, written in leagaleese.

I'm curious, which AHJ would you ask for an OK to locate the Cu??

John

Thanks for the info Hotline...I'll ask one of the inspectors for details...heck, maybe have a clerk xerox a few pages for me.

Who would I ask?
Well, I guess I would ask the head cheese of the building dept. - we don't see eye to eye so I am already guessing the answer will be "NO".

John and Celtic,

I was told by more than 1 EC that even though the HVAC is a brand new system it is being installed in an "old" house (Even if the house is a year old). Therefore it falls under "Rehab". (This is their words not mine.) I have a call into DCA, but we keep playing telco tag. I believe that a new HVAC should follow the newest NEC and not fall under "rehab". However I might have to follow the DCA rules. I am waiting to see what their response is. When I get it, I will post here again.

Thanks for the info Hotline. I always wondered why the existing cu disconnect didn't need to be brought 'up to code'. It would seem appropriate to update the existing cu if 1 new cu was being added.

Harold:
That's bull. REPLACEMENT falls under rehab. Installing a NEW HVAC system (CU & A Coil/Furnace, or an air handler) requires conformance with current NEC.

Call Susan Borek at DCA, and get her 'opinion', but remember as AHJ it's your opinion that counts (& your lic.)

Shock:
No, the code is not retroactive. The 'new' work has to comply, NOT anything that is existing, unless you touch it.

John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 05-31-2006).]

harold,
I cannot imagine how that install would even close resemble the intent of the rehab code (I think I just answered my own question - dam!).

John,

I called Suzanne and asked her aboutthe "Rehab" code and a brand new HVAC system. And YES! It does fall under the rehab code and a new receptacle is not required near the outside Comp. However that section of the rehab code is being changed. As of sometime in Aug./Sept. the rehab is going to change and it is going to make a new basement space fall under new work, a new HVAC, and new attic space will all fall under new work and all of the new NEC codes will be required. Just not yet! sigh! (This is as per the DCA not my words.)

Harold:
"Some change opinions as often as sox"......

OK, so as of your conversation, per the opinion you obtained, the GFI is NOT required within 25' of the Cu.

Once again, the gray areas of interpertation of the UCC 'SHALL' cause non-uniformity in the enforcement of the "Uniform" Construction Code.

John

the gray areas of interpertation of the UCC 'SHALL' cause non-uniformity in the enforcement of the "Uniform" Construction Code.

Is that a blue uniform? Oh were not talking about attire. Just what is uniform about the UCC. The IBC provides just as much uniformity as the UCC.

And they there is the NEC (national electrical code) adopted by what about 5 or 6 states without any additions or deletions.
Naturally we all interpret the NEC the same way on everything.

D:
The UCC is a compilation of rules, procedures, and regulations that are "The Law" (5:23 et seq.) in New Jersey for construction.
Administration.
Building
Electrical
Fire
Plumbing
Elevator
ADA
Asbestos/Lead Paint
Rehab
Amusement Rides
And a lot more

Within the UCC are 'amended' items of the NEC, Plumbing, Building, NFPA and other codes 'as adopted' by the State.

And, it's written mostly in legaleese, as it is law.

John