Does the pool filter motor have to be on a dedicated feed?
Can you install the convience receptacle on the same feed as the pool motor?
Any thoughts?

I don't find any requirement for the pool pump to be on a dedicated circuit without other outlets.

Dave

If the pool pump is hardwired, then this rule applies:

210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

So if you want receptacles on a hard wired motor circuit, then it can only draw half of the circuit's rating (which isn't likely with most 120V pool pumps).

The light circuit would be a better candidate for the receptacle but be aware of the "unspliced EGC" rule when you lay it out.
I pulled 2 EGCs when I did mine. The unspliced one went to the J box and another was used for the receptacle, switch etc.
My pump is 240v. I figure the I2R savings will pay for the extra few bucks I paid for the breaker ... eventually.

680.22 (A) (3) "Dwelling unit(s). Where a permanently installed pool is installed at a dwelling unit(s), no fewer than one 125 volt 15 or 20 ampere receptacle on a general purpose branch circuit shall be located not less than 3.0m (10ft) from, and not more than 6.0 m (20ft) from, the inside wall of the pool."

I would say a circuit for the pool motor is not a general purpose branch circuit, thus the convienience receptacle can not be fed from that circuit.

Branch Circuit, General-Purpose. A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles or outlets for lighting and appliances.

I suppose it all depends on if a pool pump is an "appliance" and if the light is "lighting".
They didn't have any problem with my receptacle on the same circuit as the wet niche light. (Lee Co Fla)

gfretwell, I don't understand the post about 2 equipment grounds and how that plays into line loss. I2R

Can you explain?


Dnk.....

With a 240v motor the loss in the wire will be less (increases with the square of current)
A wet niche light required an unspliced ground to the J box (with a few exceptions).
Since I was also feeding another circuit from this (the receptacles) it was easier to just pull 2 EGCs and avoid any confusion.

Sorry, I didn't notice you switched topics in your post.

Somehow(I dunno),I thought you were suggesting an EGC had something to do with line loss.


Dnk......

I will plead temporary insanity. I was digging in the yard and I was delerious when I came back in to post that. ;-)

Sorry for the confusion.

My thoughts are as that the receptacle that is required 10'- 20' away really wouldn't pull that much power, (A radio and/or maybe a hedge clipper,etc.) Therefore, putting that outlet with the pump really couldn't hurt.
However my real question is still, does it say that in the NEC that the pump motor has to be on a dedicated feed?

I have someone asking me this question, there is an AHJ that is requiring the filter to be on it's own dedicated circuit.
There is no requirement from the manufacture that would fall under 110.3 (B), he already checked with the instructions.

I agree that you don't need a dedicated circuit but the 50% thing may make it a defacto thing if you have receptacles on the circuit.
On the other hand they usually specify a gas heater will have it's igniter/valve circuit on the load side of the final pump disconnect to make sure the gas stops when the pump stops. That is going to be a fairly insignificant load tho.

I feel that MarkP gave the correct code reference. 210.23 -'02 NEC states that if there are fastened in place loads on the same circuit with lighting and cord connected utilization equipment, the fastened in place loads can't exceed 50% of the circuit rating. Reading on, any one single cord connected utilization equipment can't exceed 80% of the circuit rating. Most motors would no doubt require a separate circuit. I suppose if a pool pump were cord connected and there were provisions for quick disconnecting on the water (unions) it could be considered not fastened in place but that might be a stretch. My call would be a separate circuit

I'm running a dedicated circuit simply because it's common sense. Could you imagine, "honey, the television outlet isn't working, must be that pool filter acting up again." Of course you can't imagine that (even if you have come across something like this), because that does not make sense if you're a good electrician. The 50% load rule in 210.23 (A)(2) makes this very clear.

Harold:

We're talking AG pools right??

Twistlock; GFI, etc, etc??

OK, math time; step by step...

Continuous load..80%...20 amps....16 amp max.
50% = 8 amps or 960 watts; 1 HP = 746 watts, 1-1/4 HP MAX.

OK? take a 1-HP filter, using the math, NOT the nameplate.....

Resi panel, 3/4" PVC, #12 THHN/THWN; run to a GP GFI 10-20' from pool;continue to twistlock at pool filter, 5' from pool, w/bubble cover; 3' cord on filter; math acceptable!

I read 680 (2005) and don't see any prohibition for the above.

Give me a call, or an e-mail if you want; I'm curious??? I'll be at te PGA 'till 8/14, but the cell is on.

John

John, you are required to calculate the load for this motor using Table 430.248 which lists the full load current of a 1-hp motor as 16 amps at 115 volts.

Curt

Curt:
You are 100% correct. I was using basic calcs to show that without using 430, a question that Harold referenced will arise.

This is a 'usual' discussion item at the counter, or on the phone to homeowners who want to be electricians. You went where I go, after they present their case for having the setup I outlined above.

Sometimes they already have it installed "their way" and have to re-do it.

The EC's get it right 98%.

John

John,

Yeah, it is an above ground pool and yeah, the math does work out. The thing is that most convinece receptacles don't use anything heavy around the A/G pool. IF you are going to install a lot of landscape lights etc., then by all means use dedicated circits and plan the whole job out. You don't need circuits tripping because we didn't do our homeowrk.

Harold:

Based on a 1/2 HP and larger, 120 volt, filter pump, a dedicated circuit IS mandatory, with either a GFI CB, or a 20 amp faceless GFI device mounted remote from the pool.

A 1/3 HP motor (7.2 amps) will work on a circuit 'shared' with another device(s); but, I can't remember seeing a 1/3HP filter.


As to the 'landscape lighting' that's a nightmare itself with a HO permit. Had one with 120 volt 'rope' lights installed around a IG pool; spliced and taped (red tape), on 2 extension cords, cause the "GF" outlet "kept shutting off" when I plugged the lights in.

John

John,

I didn't see this pool, I am just going by what a contractor told me. I think it is one of those small kiddie pools, You know the ones that are sort of easy to take down in the winter, not a full size A/G pool, and large enough to have a small filter.
I will check back with him to see if it is a 1/3 hp or 1/2 hp motor.

When you get into "storable pools" a whole lot of what we know about pools goes away.
(including the receptacle you are asking about)
It certainly calls into question all of the "fastened in place" language.

I think a storable pool only requires GFCI for everything and listed equipment, along with the separation/clearances in 680 part I.

As an aside, I have one of those 1/3hp storable pool pumps and it is a tiny little motor. I just bought it because it was cheap on Ebay. I was thinking about using it for solar heat experiments.

Harold:
As gfretwell said...
If it's a storable pool Sections 1 & 3 of 680 apply....
680.30 to 680.34 (05 NEC; '02 is in car)
Basically GFI not less than 10'; no bond required. IF it has lights, read on.

Basically, it's a non-permit item for me.

John