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Posted By: Bill Addiss Building Code Question - 04/25/03 04:23 AM
My understanding is that an areas' Building Code is what specifies the Electrical requirements, whether it is compliance with some version of the NEC or something else.

My question is, what does your Building Code actually say about Electrical work? What is the language?

Bill
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 10:42 AM
Bill, I don't have my building code book handy but I beleive it states that all work is to be done in accordance with the Mass Electrical code. (Tne NEC with amendments) It also specifies some things like lighting locations, and switch locations.
Posted By: txsparky Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 12:04 PM
Bill,
Here's one from the city of Conroe,Texas. Electrical Section is Chapter 6. It starts with a short title,then the object and scope.( up to a $2000 a day fine for violations ).A couple of sections about the City Electrician.Finally gets to Art.II which covers licensing.Then Art.III covers the Installation Standards (99 NEC with local amendmentts )Art.IV covers permits and inspections http://livepublish.municode.com/22/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-j.htm&vid=10593

I have also found other city codes by doing a search on the LivePublish MuniCode website.

Donnie
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 01:06 PM
In Minnesota, with the [b]Minnesota State Board of Electricity[/b] regulation starts at the state level with this Minnesota Statute . Note the link in the text to 16B.61 which leads one off into a warren of interlocking statute.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 03:12 PM
tx,

Your link didn't show any codes.

Al,

I'm trying to understand how our own "newly found" NY Building Code is supposed to be understood. Let me see if I understand yours correctly.
Quote
All electrical wiring, apparatus and equipment for electric light, heat and power, technology circuits or systems shall comply with the rules of the department of commerce or the department of labor and industry, as applicable, and be installed in conformity with accepted standards of construction for safety to life and property. For the purposes of this chapter, the rules and safety standards stated at the time the work is done in the then most recently published edition of the National Electrical Code as adopted by the National Fire Protection Association, Inc. and approved by the American National Standards Institute, ...
This sounds to me like you automatically go to the latest NEC as soon as it's published. Is that what that means?
Quote
...provided further, that in the event a Minnesota Building Code is formulated pursuant to section 16B.61, containing approved methods of electrical construction for safety to life and property, compliance with said methods of electrical construction of said Minnesota Building Code shall also constitute compliance with this section,
This means that any Electrical related info in the Building Code is also acceptable?
Quote
... and provided further, that nothing herein contained shall prohibit any political subdivision from making and enforcing more stringent requirements than set forth herein and such requirements shall be complied with by all licensed electricians working within the jurisdiction of such political subdivisions.
Basically, Municipalities can adopt their own rules, but not be more permissive?

And it only has to be followed by Licensed Electricians?? Whoa! Is that a loophole or what? [Linked Image]

Bill
Posted By: txsparky Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 06:45 PM
Sorry Bill,
When you click on the link, there is a table of contents on the left side. Click the + sign next to Chapter 6 Electrical Code*. This will give you a drop down menu of 4 different articles. Each Article also has a drop down menu that can be accessed by clicking on the + sign next to it. Or, at the top of the page, there is a bar that contains next, or previous document that can be used to scroll through the different ordinances.

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 04-25-2003).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 06:53 PM
Ah, I didn't wait long enough for it to show up maybe. I see it now. I'll look at it a bit later, Thanks.

Bill
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 09:07 PM
Bill,

Ain't language a be-a-you-tea-full thang? [Linked Image]
Quote
This sounds to me like you automatically go to the latest NEC as soon as it's published. Is that what that means?
In practice, the state legislature enacts the newly published code approximately ¾ year after publication. The section I linked to is the tip of the iceberg.
Quote
This means that any Electrical related info in the Building Code is also acceptable?
Yup. The State gets to modify, add to, or delete.
Quote
Basically, Municipalities can adopt their own rules, but not be more permissive?
Yup.
Quote
And it only has to be followed by Licensed Electricians??
That gets expanded elsewhere.

Al
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 09:11 PM
Al,

It sounds like you could follow either the NEC or the Building Code?

Bill
Posted By: GTE Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 09:57 PM
Bill is it true that New York State did not adopt the 2002 code as of yet. I was told this from an inspector from the New York board. He said they just adopted the 99 code not that long ago.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/25/03 10:28 PM
GTE,

That is true. Before July NY was actually on the '93 NEC (but who knew?)

There are some things I am trying to figure out regarding that, because there are also requirements in the Building Code and Residential Code that differ from the '99 NEC. The Residential code seems to say that wiring methods etc. in the NEC are also permitted. So we can use either one?

Here's the rules in the NY Residential Code regarding Arc Fault requirements ......


did you get that? [Linked Image]
there is a Title:
SECTION E3802:

GROUND-FAULT AND ARC-FAULT CIRCUIT-INTERRUPTER PROTECTION

but then nothing about Arc-Fault at all. That seems to mean that they are not required by NY Codes, but are permitted if you want to put them in.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 04-25-2003).]
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 03:21 AM
Bill,

The NEC and the Building Code.

The Building Code adapts the NEC essentially by reference. The BC only spells out a few specific things, by comparison to the NEC.

Al
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 03:44 AM
Al,

I understand that what is contained in the building code is by no means complete as far as Electrical requirements go. What I mean is if the two (BC and NEC) differ somehow it sounds like you could follow either one.
Quote
... compliance with said methods of electrical construction of said Minnesota Building Code shall also constitute compliance with this section

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 04-26-2003).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 03:53 AM
txsparky:
Quote
Sec. 6-48.1. National electrical code adopted.

The 1999 Edition of the National Electrical Code, Standard of the National Board of Fire Underwriters, as recommended by the National Fire Protection Association, being ANSI/NFPA 70-1999, and the amendments thereto, are hereby adopted as the minimum standard for the installation of all electrical wiring, devices and equipment in the city, except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter, and the same is hereby made a part of this chapter as fully and to the same extent as if copied herein in full, a copy of which shall be on file with the city secretary. In event of any conflict between the provisions of this chapter and said National Electrical Code, the provisions of this chapter shall govern.
This is a little different than Al's code reference in that if differences (conflicts) exist between the Building Code and the NEC the Building Code must be followed.

Thanks, from these examples it seems that there is no "standard" way that the NEC gets adopted by areas. Interesting ..

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 04-26-2003).]
Posted By: George Corron Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 04:22 AM
Hey Bill,
Ain't been around a whole lot for the last 3 weeks, just too much going on to play with the computer.

In VA, the "Board of Housing and Community development" under Va state statute adopts the Uniform State Building Code (USBC). The USBC states that the electrical requirements come from NFPA 70, and goes on to list other documents that apply elsewhere, many from the NFPA. Currently the 1996 NEC applies, we will adopt the 99 code probably on Sept. 1, without the AFCI requirements.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 04:40 AM
George,

What do you mean about "playing" with the Computer? [Linked Image]

So there are no Electrical requirements in the Building Code at all? If there are some and they differ from the NEC which one rules?

Nice to hear from you!
[Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: nesparky Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 06:28 AM
Bill
Go to the link for the Nebraska state electrical board in the western states. You will find the state electrical act and the boards rules and admendments. In Nebraske the NEC is adopted into state law. Building codes are adopted by the cities.
Posted By: George Corron Re: Building Code Question - 04/26/03 01:39 PM
Bill,
Remember 2 weeks ago I took a new job, been a tad busy with that, and the time I took off between the Pentagon and the county seemed to be filled with 2 funerals and doctors visits so "noodling the net" seemed to take a BIG backseat.

Until the new VA USBC is in effect, we never amended the NEC, BTW housing under the current statutes is controlled by the '93 CABO code, so residential is still under the 93. We always have a brou-ha-ha over amending the NEC, but this time there were several amendments, I'll try to send along a link soon.

Link to Va BOCA
http://www.vbcoa.org


[This message has been edited by George Corron (edited 04-26-2003).]
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Building Code Question - 04/28/03 07:50 PM
Bill:
Over here, on NJ we have the NJ Uniform Construction Code (5:23 et al) as the "building code", and it incorporates the NEC (1999 at present) as the "electrical code.
There are some amendments, mainly the AFCI issues. There are others, I would have to bring the book in and type a while. (I'm a two finger poker)

The UCC incorporates various national codes, and is a "legal" document, and as such is written partially in legaleese.

John
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 07/03/03 04:39 AM
John,

It looks like you guys have a new Building and Residential Code over in NJ now.

Any major changes as far as Electrical requirements?

Bill
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Building Code Question - 07/03/03 01:30 PM
Bill

As far as NYS adopting the '99 NEC, they did not (there is a small article in the last IAEI mag that Mark Anderson wrote that states this), the way the NYS law is written they are not permitted to 'adopt' a code, they have to 'promulgate' their own, hence not adopting the NEC but referencing it. As I mentioned in the other post, it depends on the occupancy of the building, and the type of work in that occupancy that determines if you use the NEC or the Building Code(s).
The 2 (of 8) documents that I as a NY electrical contractor would buy are, The Residential Building Code (if you do residential work), and the Energy Conservation Code (it is now required to install a timeclock at any pool). There is a lot in those two documents that affect the installations.
BTW- what may confuse some is that the code is minimum requirements, and does not stop one from installing AFCI's in single family dwellings, just says it is not required to pass an inspection.
Another issue is the dedicated space above panels in residential dwellings, the Building Officials in some towns are making the EC, or GC, or HO move pipes or ductwork that is above the panel in service upgrades.
How about the location of stairway lighting fixtures? that is also addressed.

Pierre
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 07/03/03 03:30 PM
Pierre,

That's interesting. I was wondering why NY didn't just adopt the International Codes and put out an Amendment package.

I hadn't heard about the Time Clock yet.

Bill
Posted By: George Re: Building Code Question - 07/03/03 11:06 PM
The Oklahoma constitution has a section on electric codes.

It allows cities to adopt any code they want.

but compliance with any National Electrical Code (such as the NEC) is prima facia compliance with the local code.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Building Code Question - 07/04/03 01:28 AM
Proposals are in the works for electrical systems to become subject to Building Regulations in England, but at present our building code makes no direct reference to electrics in any way.

There are indirect references for new buildings, however, e.g. requirement for AC-powered smoke detectors, exhaust fan for bathrooms with no window, etc.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 07/04/03 04:07 AM
George,

Thanks for the info. That's another method of adoption to add to our list here.

[Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 07/04/03 04:22 AM
nesparky,

I finally got around to finding the Electrical Act you were talking about. So, basically, you have the 2002 NEC with the few amendments listed there? That sounds easier to follow than some of the other situations here.

I noticed they axed the AFCI altogether in Nebraska.

Thanks for the info,
Bill
Posted By: harold endean Re: Building Code Question - 07/05/03 08:49 PM
Bill,

To add my 2 cents in here and add to what John said. Yes, NJ has a new building code, but all the sub codes, Building, fire, elec. and plumbing have to follow the Uniform Construction Code book. (UCC) or "Blue Book". In this UCC book, the state will add or delent what they want from any model code that they want to follow. As for Electric, the will adopted the entire NEC except for a few small issues, like the AFCI device. They also take the responsability of drilling, cutting and boring of holes from all the sub codes and place it under the final say of the building inspector. As for what the new building code says about electric work, I believe the state will delete that from the building code book. This way it falls under the electrical subcode and the NEC.
Posted By: nesparky Re: Building Code Question - 07/06/03 02:43 PM
Bill
That is correct. The legislature ammends the state electrical act every 3 years to adopt the latest NEC with the admendments the state electrical board wants. It makes for a consistant system for most of the state. Only local admendments, which have to be approved by the state board, can make the code a bit stricter.
Posted By: electure Re: Building Code Question - 07/08/03 12:18 AM
The same as Nesparky posted.
Maybe someday we'll all get together... [Linked Image]...S
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 07/08/03 12:39 AM
Electure,

Just curious about something ... I noticed that there is a California Code, an LA County and a LA City code. Do you need all 3 if you work in LA city?

Bill
Posted By: John Steinke Re: Building Code Question - 07/16/03 03:21 AM
The building codes that I've seen all reference a separate electric code- usually the NEC.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 12/12/03 02:13 PM
Just found this 'oldie'

Does anyone have anything to add?

Bill
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Building Code Question - 12/15/03 03:20 AM
Bill
I have spent more time researching the intricacies of the New York State Fire and Prevention codes, of which the Residential and building codes are a part of.

If you are working in a 1 or 2 family dwelling, you are to use the Residential version, but there are some special rules.
A 400 amp service or larger for dwellings will require one to not use the residential code, but to use the '99 NEC in its entirety.
An example:
1. A dwelling with a 200 amp service is not required to have any AFCI protected circuits, as per the NYSRBC.

2. Next door a dwelling has a 400 amp service, now it has to follow the '99 NEC so it is required to have AFCI protected receptacles in the bedrooms.

The NY Residential Building code is much more restrictive than the NEC. IT has locations for switches, for lighting fixtures interior and exterior. More restrictive in physical protection of some cables.
ALL MATERIAL, EQUIPMENT, etc... is REQUIRED to be LISTED. (is that possible?).
The 'dreaded' smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector requirements are also there.
The list goes on and on and on and ...

Until at least two more 'ICC code cycles', NYS will be behind the NEC cycle - when the 2005 NEC comes out for the first year NYS will be referencing the '99, then in 2006, NYS MAY reference(they are not sure yet) the 2002 NEC.

Do you want more?

Pierre
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 12/15/03 03:38 AM
Pierre,

Thanks for the info. Are the people in your area generally getting with the program as far as these new codes are concerned? Or is there still a lot of confusion?

In the last 6 to 9 months I've seen a lot of blank looks from contractors when the new codes are mentioned. It's going to take some time for everone to really understand how things are supposed to work and to get over the fact that there are other codes besides the NEC that they have to follow.

Bill
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Building Code Question - 12/15/03 03:53 AM
I was reading the chapter minutes in the latest edition of the IAEI magazine and was amazed at how much confusion there is in New york in regards to what codes are adopted.

In Utah, we adopt the all codes the year after they are published ( 2002 NEC Jan. 1 of 03, 2003 ICC codes Jan. 1 of 04). I enjoy the simplicity of it, but then again, I'm pretty simple minded :-P
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Building Code Question - 12/15/03 03:57 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot to answer Bill's original question. The I-codes state in chapter 1 that "all plumbing systems shall comply with the XXXX edition of the XXXX plumbing code, and all mechanical shall comply with XXXX edition of the XXXXX mechanical code, and all electrical shall comply with the XXXX edition of the XXXXX electrical code. The I-codes tend to use their own books for reference, but it is my understanding that this is a very amended article. We amended ours to reflect the electrical code. It has been a long burning question about if you adopt the building code and it refences another document, have you in effect adopted that reference...I don't know the answer and most instructors I talk with don't either.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Building Code Question - 12/15/03 04:51 AM
Quote
I was reading the chapter minutes in the latest edition of the IAEI magazine and was amazed at how much confusion there is in New york in regards to what codes are adopted.
Ryan,

Picture this recent situation; (before new Code adoption)
Inspectors are referencing the 2002 NEC and Continuing Education credits are being given for 2002 NEC Update classes and seminars.

NY State codes were referencing the 1993 NEC
- Who knew is a real good question.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 12-14-2003).]
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