The company that I work for is trying to enforce a rule saying that hard hats must be worn with the brim facing forward. They say that it is an OSHA reg. I am on the safety committee and I prefer wearing my brim to the front but some of my coworkers prefer it to the back. I have looked but cannot find an OSHA rule stating either way is right or wrong nor does the manufacture's instructions make mention of it.

Is there a right or wrong way?

I have looked but cannot find an OSHA rule stating either way is right or wrong nor does the manufacture's instructions make mention of it.


Duhhh, which way do you think it's supposed to go?

Last I looked they don't put instructions on shoes, pants and shirts either but most people get it right.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 03-03-2005).]

Brian,
I agree, there isn't anything in the OSHA Regulations as far as I can see regarding the correct way to wear a hard-hat.
The question has to be asked though, why on earth would you want to wear your hard hat backwards.
I mean, you wouldn't wear your overalls on backwards would you?.
However, I'm assuming that the hat testing is done with the brim to the front of the head.
The question would then be, will the hard-hat perform differently with it being the other way around?.
There's always someone that has to be different.

Here is a visual that you guys would get a kick out of: I work at a hospital in NYC and we recently underwent a major renovation and had union sparkies doing the electrical work, one of the apprentices had his hard hat that was modified to be able to tell it apart from his co-workers, he drilled a hole in the top of it and put a 2" hex head bolt through the hole from the inside of the hat, with a nut threaded on to the bolt from the outside to secure his identification device, then I would guess as a shock absorber he screwed a wirenut on the end of the bolt that was showing past the nut. How about that for some properly trained personnel. I was just waiting for the OSHA guys that frequently visited the site to get a glimpse of that one or for somethign to fall on his head and see what kind of mark it owuld leave in his cranium. What is the point of wearing a hard hat that is going to kill you more efficiently than if something fell on your bare head?? Also to add he would wear it backwards so I guess the problem is 2-fold.

[This message has been edited by mkoloj (edited 03-03-2005).]

master66... you are correct, there isn't an OSHA regulation that specifically addressses this issue.

But, as a compliance officer, I can tell you that Trumps "hit the nail on the head" (pun intended) with his comment:
That is exactly the point from an enforcement standpoint of this issue. ANSI Z89.1 standard essentially requires that the manufacturer test the hardhat in the manner it will be worn in the workplace. Most manufacturer's only submit their helmets to testing with the brim forward. However, having said that, a small handful do submit their equipment for testing from both directions.

A manufacturer must indicate in their instructions whether or not the helmet can be worn with the brim to the rear. If they do not have a specification for that in the instructions... you can not do it.

Just as an FYI, the employer would likely be in violation of one or more of the following OSHA standards if they are allowing employees to wear their helmets "backwards."


If you are interested in how OSHA actually enforces this issue, there are two "Letters of Interpretation" specificially on this question. You can read them on-line at: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=243 65 http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=207 66

[This message has been edited by safetygem (edited 03-03-2005).]

All that info is appreciated, Safetygem, but...
I've read ALL of the ANSI helmet standards, and none of them have tests that would be affected in the least if the shell were reversed, or placed in any other orientation with the liner. Every impact test is from directly above the test "head." For anyone -including OSHA- to say otherwise is to adopt the attitude of "everything not specifically permitted is forbidden."

Then there is the matter of "is a hard hat required?" Or, would a 'bump cap' suffice? Or is the helmet simply a part of the uniform?

More important, we must ask if wearing the "hard hat" itself creates a hazard. For example....though there is no such requirement in the ANSI standard....almost all hard hats direct rainfall forward, over the bill. If you were working on an open panel, would you want the hat to direct stuff towards the panel? Are you working in a position where the brim blocks your vision? Does the brim interfere with the use of other safety gear?

What was raised- namely, the wearing of a reversed hard hat as a fashion statement- is properly a management issue, and not a safety one. Do you want to look profesional and competently serious- or do you want folks to treat you like an overaged delinquent?

Thank you for all of the great replies.

I went to the links that Safety gem provided and found them very informative.

It seemed that OSHA's position was that unless the manufacture specifically certifies that the hard hat will meet the ANSI standards when worn backwards, the brim must be in the front.

I then went to MSA's web site, the manufacture's web site of the hard hats that we wear. On the web site they had a list of FAQ's. One of the questions was, in fact, "Can I wear my V-Gard helmet backwards?". The answer was that the hard hats that we wear would meet the ANSI standard when worn either way.

The issue of how people percieve you or treat you when you wear your helmet backwards is, so far, a decision that would be left up to the individual.

Wearing the hat backwards allows better vision of bump hazards. Luckily I don't work in a job where I have to wear a hard hat much. I must have had crunched the bones in the back of my neck at least 4 times before I finally learned not to trust my sense of clearance distance between the top of the hard hat and the duct work I tried to walk under! I never reported the incidents. Luckily, no long term effects..yet... But I wonder how many electricians have had neck problems because of the forward brim 'requirement'.

Strange parallel guys,
I was working on a building site today installing a Temporary supply.
One of the Foreman Builders told one of the Apprentices under him to get his hard hat on around the right way.
He was told that he signed the Safety Agreement when he started employment with the said company, so he had to comply and that meant wearing PPE correctly.

Actually, I've had trouble finding any 'reversed' hats in the Reno area....everyone's wearing hard hats that look like cowboy hats!

Elzappr
I had picked up a 10 hp motor out of a handler and was walking 5 feet to a cart when i bumped into a low steam pipe which knocked me off balance.I dropped the motor right on the bridge of my foot crushing it.In my pain filled stupor i then lerch backward and fell back into the airhandler sliced the back of my neck open and got the motor mount studs in my middle of the back.I had the the hardhat cranked on tight which also ripped some hair out.I ended up going off for two weeks because when i dropped the motor it broke the a blood vessel under the skin and the top my foot filled with so much blood that i couldn't put my work boot on.The supervisor was there and saw it happen.He was sure i broke my neck the way i fell.The funny thing is the 2 or 3 inches that the hardhat added to my height was enough to create the hazard.To this day i automatically walk around hunched over when ever i put it on lol.

Frank....you're not the only one who's learned the hard way about the extra heigth a hard hat adds to you.

There's a time and a place for PPE....simply wearing some magic item isn't going to solve anything, and can create additional hazards. Unfortunately, too often management takes the idiotic approach of pulling irrelevant requirements out of thin air.

Hey guys,
I have been wearing a hardhat every day for 15 years now and I will tell you that the brim forward does make a difference.

Firstly, forward or backward, you are going to misjugde your height at least once and smack your gourd.

The reason the brim stays forward (remember, hardhats were made initially for construction) is to protect your eyes from falling particles. Welding slag and such.

As far as accidents caused by hardhats, I can quote people who would not have been injured if they weren't wearing their seatbelt, or safety glasses, or gloves. Is that a reason to not use them?

I know that wearing a "headache generator" is annoying, but you do get used to it.

Ed

Duhh!!!!!!Not many of you work with the tools to make a living do you? Yes I know how to put my clothes on and how to wear a hard hat on an industrial job. Brim Back. If you have to weld, grid, use cutting torches and many other jobs you have to have your hard hat brim back to use other PPE. When your operating some equipment it is easier with the brim back. I concider most the above remarks ignorant at best.

Highkv,
And just what is that supposed to mean?.
FYI, I would say that 98% of the Members here at ECN are full-time professional Electrical Contractors and do not work behind a desk.
Another point is, who wears a Hard-Hat while they are Welding?.
You make sure that there is nothing that can fall on your head before you start cutting or welding.
For God sakes use your head, most masks don't allow you to wear a Hard-Hat under them anyway.
I've been a weldor since I was 12 years old,
I did 3 years as a professional Weldor before I started as a Fire-fighter.
I wear a leather cap to save my hair from catching on fire.
Getting people to wear the PPE in the first place is often the biggest hurdle.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 03-16-2005).]

Gee, HiK, don't I get a gold star? I did refer to the brim interfering with other PPE.

I also made the distinction as to the real problem. As a reminder, we need to have the following two questions answered before we can really give an answer:
1) Is a hard hat required at all? and,
2) Are we discussing a "fashion statement?"

Here's a new take on the whole situation.
Provided by renosteinke:
(sorry for the delay in posting this John)



John,
I can see what you are saying and I agree, there are situations where hard-hats are really required and others that don't require that sort of protection.
There is a hat here called a bump cap and that is worn in Industrial places here where head protection is required, but not to the degree that a Hard Hat would provide.

Mike.



[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 04-22-2005).]

Bump hats are only to be used to protect your nogin from "bumps" eg banging your head into something. A hard hat will protect you from falling things to a pointwhere a bump hat wont. I have used a bump hat in a low head room basement but found it to be designed for someone with a square head, fell off every time i ducked through a doorway.

Mash, you bring up another aspect of "safety management," one that doesn't get discussed nearly enough.

OSHA regs generally require that all safety (or protective) equipment be provided by the employer, at no cost to the employee. This rule has some "unintended consequences."
The gear is selected on a "one size fits all" basis. Everybody gets the exact same gear, without regard to any individual differences in use, size, or applicability.
It is also often purchased by either a secretary -who never worked the trade- or by someone who hasn't done any climbing (or crawling) for years. Too often, the decision to purchase is driven by the price, and a pretty picture in the catalog.

Rock climbers, and skateboarders, use protective headgear that just might be more appropriate in some situations. However, there are sufficient differences in the various test methods that one CANNOT say thay something that passes, say, Z89, would also pass Z89.1. The load applied differs in size and shape, and the "test head" is different.

There is an attitude that assumes that "more is better." This is not always the case.

I personally wish they would just allow common sense to prevail. When you are working overhead and have the bill to the front, it severely restricts your upward vision. When you are trying to get into tight places it is a lot easier to have the bill to the back. We are not allowed to go up in a lift without a person on the ground. Some of the people here say the biggest need for the hard hats are because the people required to wear them in the lifts bump their helmits (due to poor visibility) and knock them off, causing the guy on the floor to need the protection.

Reno, that's a cool titfer! We could come to work themed, so your guy could have some neat chaps cunningly adapted as protective overalls, Deputy Sheriff badge cum tape clip, holsters converted into a tool belt, and to complete the ensemble a cordless drill disguised as a S&W 44.

"You packin' any heat pardnee?"
"Sure am, Stumpy- Milwaukee 24v!"

Of course, I'd have a Bowler hat (Derby?)- fashioned from 16 gage steel plate. No problems with where you put the brim on one of those, - it's a 360 degree design. Second thoughts I'll have a Topper, with a secret compartment for my sandwiches.

Alan

This is the latest fashion in hard hats.

Alan...Bowler hat??? Nah...any proper Brit would want a hard hat shaped like the army pith helmets as seen in "Zulu!"

The French had a pretty spiffy helmet in the "Great War." For a "bump cap," the Legion Kepi would look sharp, neck scarf and all!

The Germans would, of course, have little spikes in the tops.

Office wonks, and other visitors, would get helmets with little propellers on them

:-)

I looked up pith helmets, (made of cloth covered cork, actually) , and apart from the Imperial British military -
"Peeethh, (wait for it, soljahh!) Peeeeth ON!", "Staaaand Easy! Pith OFF!" - they were also favored headgear for French and German colonists, as well as US forces for a time. Other users were colonists in hot climates for sun-hats, and the Viet Minh of all people.

I imagine they would also have served as protective headgear from such hazards as falling coconuts!

Alan

We have the brim to fit over your hardhat for work in the sun, looks like a big canvas toilet seat. Works well, abit like a hard hat sombrero

With or without corks?

Alan

I had never really considered wearing my hard hat backwards. I can see how it could offer more protection to the back of my head and neck while looking level or down into a panel or equipment. I would put the protection of the brim in the direction that I thought the flying objects would likely come from... Walking around the job site, wear it forwards. Looking down into a panel on an outside wall, wear it backwards. Dealing with higher ups back at the office, sit on it.
Joe

[This message has been edited by JoeTestingEngr (edited 11-30-2005).]

I'll have to do some research to find the standard but you fill this in the ANSI standards.

Essentially if the hard hat manufacture rates the hard hat liner unit to be inserted in either direction then technically it can be worn with the bill facing backward. This exception was originally intended for iron workers.

But the Company can set the rule and that's what stands.

As a safety professional I have more trouble with people not wearing them let alone wearing backward

 
Er, see http://www.bullard.com/Industrial/Head_Protection/911H.shtml There are 'hats' and 'caps' by at least one manufacturer—in high-temp style. 'Hats' are common for many, and don't leave any guessing which way is forward.

 ;`\
 

Ha Ha Ha,
That's a shocker Alan!.
LMAO.
Hey Scott,
That's a rather good call on the aspects of temperature on a hard-hat.
I'd never even thought about that in the past,
Our FF helmets are made of Fibre-Glass and I've only ever seen one of them smoke once.
I'm not sure about other types of hard hats and how thier materials would stand up to a higher ambient temperature.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-10-2005).]

No corks but is becoming more common to see nets placed over hats to keep the flies off, they seem to be very bad lately.The flies get to you and You just lose it and flail your arms about, looks quite funny to anyone watching.

You guys should be a bit more candid about your comments. I have spent most of my life in a hard hat (brim to the back). I know many tradesmen who wear their brims backward and I cannot think of one who does it to be cool or as a “fashion statement”. It is practical in many instances and I cannot see any problem with safety. When I am cutting and welding I wear my cutting goggles on my hard hat. I could not imagine pulling my goggles up and down over the brim all day long. I put the ears and the liner in my hat so I can wear it backward. Not only is it more convenient but IMO it is more comfortable. I have lots of respect for the members of this forum but and opinion is just an opinion. I don’t think anyone should be judged by how they wear their hat.
"Unless its brim to the side”.

Here in Ontario I have been told you must wear your hard hat forward unless you are a welder. Then you are allowed to wear it backwards so your welding helmet can be worn. I don't work in an enviroment that requires hard hats.

When i was doing refinerys I had two hard hats one for welding and working where I had to look up with the liner in backwards, the other forward. Changed hard hats depending on the task at hand. Rod

We just got new welding shields in for our maint guys. They are designed to be worn with a hardhat, bill forward.

Direction is a moot point for the electricians at my plant. Ours are full brim type, 360 coverage.

Trumpy
Moderator posted 03-03-2005 12:52 AM
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Brian,
The question has to be asked though, why on earth would you want to wear your hard hat backwards.
I mean, you wouldn't wear your overalls on backwards would you?.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well it would seem it is a matter of form and function - If your vision is restricted by the brim, you wear it in the back - if the form and function of my overalls made it better to wear them backwards I would - as it is there is no fuction for them that way so......

And people wear hats backwards all the time.

I might also add that the hardhat is only "backwards" if the carrage is placed on your head backwards, if the carrage of the hardhat could not placed so that the brim was in the back it would improper to wear it that way - as it is however every hardhat i have ever used allows the brim to be forward or back.

So in conclusion let me say:

ME: Does this hat make my head look fat?
MY WIFE: No, your fat head makes your fat head look fat.

The electricians where I used to work had to wear the full-brim hat. Their reasoning was if you stuck your head up between buss bars you wouldn't get zapped (!!). Anyways it solved the problem of brim front or back. http://www.rjsafety.com/images/jpg/Topgard.jpg