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Posted By: Trumpy Fire Extinguishers? - 03/30/03 03:48 AM
How many of you people still have the old Halon Fire Extinguishers?.
These have been banned by the Ozone Protection Act 1992, as they contain CFC's.
Also pertaining to the use of extinguishers, how often do you have thier contents level, inspected?.
I gave a women a hand to extinguish her vehicle today, after the fuel-line ruptured under the bonnet, it was only then, that she realised that her extinguisher was empty.
Also, how many people, realise that a normal sized extinguisher, only gives a maximum discharge time of 10-15 seconds?.
Most people that I have spoken to, expected something like 3-5 minutes. [Linked Image]
What are your thoughts on all this?.
Posted By: Hazmat Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/01/03 09:22 PM
Our last halon extinguisher was purchased by some aircraft manufacturer for a couple of hundred bucks. They are still allowed to use them (at least they were 24 months ago) in planes as well as some other high tech applications.

As far as the issue of how long extinguishers last, unless they're trained, how would anyone know...
Posted By: pauluk Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/01/03 09:34 PM
Last extinguisher I looked at was a foam type, in commerical premises just a few days ago. The last test date written on the label was sometime in 1997!
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/02/03 06:37 AM
Guys,
The reason I brought this subject up, is I read the other day in a Trade Magazine, that
our good friends at OSH(Occupational Health And Safety), will be carrying out "spot- checks" of various contractors vehicles to make sure that they are carrying proper Fire Extinguishers, not having one will cost you a NZ$150 fine, is this harrasment or what?, why don't they check a few restaurants and service-stations at the same time!.
I think some-one had an idea at OSH, as to what they could do for the next few months.
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/03/03 06:14 PM
I wonder if the spot-checks are a reaction to a specific incident?

I do remember seeing a fire extinguisher (and an axe, if I am not mistaken) on every yellow school bus when I was young.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/04/03 10:00 AM
Aren't there one or two European countries that require all vehicles, including private cars to carry a fire extinguisher?
Posted By: sparky Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/04/03 09:38 PM
Legislation aside, it's a good idea to have a can available. I take it the A-B-C-D is universal?

To backup Hazmat (who's monkier insinuates he does know) a little forthought on it's usage would be prudent..
[threadjack]
Years ago there was a fire on the 1st flr of a ski shalet, 4 skiers were in the 2nd flr. They threw the fat one out the window (who broke an ankle) and two others used him to land on (ribs, etc..)
Skier #4 found a can , and decided to take on the fire....we found the decedant with can in hand....it had been an old brass ornate antique...

[/align]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/05/03 12:01 AM
ThinkGood,
I bet you wouldn't see an axe in a school bus, these days! [Linked Image]
Paul,
I have heard from people who have purchased cars (that are imported directly from Japan), that the fire extinguishers have already been used(ie; are empty).
Not sure what's going on there! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/06/03 12:01 PM
Betcha the extinguishers were used in one of their weird TV shows! [Linked Image]
Not sure about Halon extinguishers here in Austria, all residential ones I know of are ABC foam.
I think the extinguishers in public buildings, schools, etc have to be inspected every 3 years.
I know of some not-so-pleasant experiences with these extinguishers. Once I saw some agricultural vehicle burn down due to an electrical fault that ignited wheat dust, the extinguisher didn't work at all. Fortunately it was an open vehicle, so all the driver had to do was to jump off.
Another experience was when a car went up in falmes across the street. We watched from our balcony as some guys tried to put out the fire with said extinguishers. They were empty almost immediately and had almost no effect (these guys used 10l ones), especially operated by non-trained personnel. The car itself wasn't burning at this point, something dripped down and burned beneath the car. However, these guys kept emptying their extinguishers onto the hood.Then the police arrived. With a 2l extinguisher! Again onto the hood.
After half an hour or so the fire department arrived. First they nearly didn'T get around the corner. Then they did what everybody before had done. Without success. They connected a hose to their truck, the water ran out on the pavement next to the hose, but it din't come out of the hose. Meanwhile another firefighter tried extinguishing the fire with a small hand-operated water pump. By now, the car was severely damaged. Then they finally realized that there was a hydrant 10 m from the car! Now they finally managed to put out the fire. Car beyond saving, next car also severly damaged (they were parked side by side).
This experience made me realize that these extinguishers are of very limited use if you don't know _exactly_ what you're doing. And it made me realize that our fire department is not exactly reliable.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/06/03 12:07 PM
One addition: Refilling Halon extinguishers is illegal in Austria since 01/01/00, all existing ones have to go until the end of 2003.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/06/03 08:29 PM
Off topic a little, but you may not have seen this one.

[Linked Image from 67.115.161.42]



[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 04-06-2003).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 04:27 AM
[Linked Image from safteng.net]
Quote
This week’s absolute shocker comes to us from a catering company in Victoria. This combination fire extinguisher and electric hot water heater was discovered in a contract food vender’s van during a regular safety audit of contractor’s equipment. The contractor was immediately terminated. Unfortunately this is not an isolated occurrence. We have been informed that this is the second device of this type discovered by the same company!

Photo provided by WorkSafe to Archives at www.Safteng.net

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 04-07-2003).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 06:25 AM
Bill,
It looks as though there's not even an overflow on that poor excuse for a cylinder.
The power connection leaves a lot to be desired. [Linked Image]
Bjarney,
I bet the owner of that BMW is going to be p-ed off, when they return to it.
Do you guys have a law in the US, about parking too close to Fire Hydrants?
Posted By: lancemurray Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 03:44 PM
Funny how a common item such as a fire extinguisher can become such a background item until you really need it. When training on fire extinguishers I always ask how many people have actually used one. I typically get about 25% response. People rarely believe me when I tell them a full 20lb extinguisher will only last about 20 seconds. There is a perception out there that it will last until the fire is out! Train to the pass acronym. P.A.S.S.
P- Pull the pin, A- Aim at the base of the fire not the flames, S- Squeeze the handle, S-Sweep across the base of the flames in a back and forth motion. Basic stuff, but surprising how few have had the opportunity to actually put one of these devices to use and use it properly. Halon? We have found that some folks have stored them out of sight for that day their computer equipment catches on fire, but not a good idea if it's not serviced regularly. There are a few halon substitutes out there that are being used in electronics applications.
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 03:59 PM
In the State of New Jersey, as of 1999, the fine for improper parking within 10 feet of fire hydrant was US$44.

From what I've heard, the "through the car windows" method is quite common.
Posted By: Trainwire Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 06:37 PM
When I worked at the radio shop on the airport, we had a customer that had some trouble getting his little airplane started. It kicked back through the carburetor and caught the fuel in the intake manifold on fire, and the fabric fresh air hose to the carb started burning. The smoke, started coming out of the cowling air holes, so that is where he emptied his dry chemical extinguisher, despite my yells not to. Ever see what that dry chemical can do to aluminum when it gets wet? A half second blast of halon, (this was back in the 80's) up the bottom of the cowling and it was all over. It cost the guy two days wages to get his engine comptartment cleaned out before he could leave.

Personally I think it was silly to outlaw halon for fire extinguishing purposes. How much did they use in one year that way? Not much I'll bet.

TW
Posted By: pauluk Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 10:45 PM
Trumpy,
Yes, it's illegal to park too close to a hydrant in the U.S. They often have a red-painted section of curb to mark the zone. No such restrictions in England as the hydrants are located under the road below covers which are located either in the sidewalk or closer to the middle of the road.

Whereabouts was this pic taken BJ? Looks like California license plates on that car.

The fire extinguisher/heater is, er, interesting. I assume the Victoria referred to here is Vic., Australia, as it looks like Australian plugs.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/07/03 11:28 PM
The BMW/Fire-Hose picture was found at: http://www.geocities.com/belfryfire_ems/pics.html but have seen it posted in other places. And yes, they are definitely California plates.

The image has been widely circulated on the 'net. By usual protocol, the vehicle should have been towed and impounded with a hefty fine, but I guess one firefighter felt that a more succinct approach was due.

The excuse by the car owner was probably something like, "But my daughter was late for her soccer game! How was I to know that the fire hydrant would be needed in the next hour? I'd been parking there every day for the last six weeks and it was never a problem before now!"




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 04-07-2003).]
Posted By: Trainwire Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/08/03 12:34 PM
In response to the picture of the hapless BMW, If the FD has the large Dia hose and the bypass valves (the red one on the other outlet of the hydrant) out, they've got something going that aint' agonna wait for a tow truck. I 've seen this done before, mostly in pictures out of NYC.

The bypass valves let them hook a hose directly to the hydrant to start fighting the fire, while the pumper sets up. Then the pumper can hook onto the hydrant, the valve switched and the original hose taken off and hooked to the pumper for added pressure.

Am I the only one that feels a perverse sense of justice here? The only thing that would make it better would be to have water spilling out over the window sills. [Linked Image]

TW
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/08/03 04:03 PM
I guess the idea of passing the hose through the window of the illegaly parked car was to get the straightest path possible for the hose.

Running it around the car or over the car would have kinked it. I don't think you want any kinks when you're dealing with pressure that high!!!

The driver of the car will think twice next time he parks in front of a fireplug.

Re Halon: Doesn't it surprise you that all the effective stuff either gets outlawed or discontinued? Hmmm....
Posted By: Scotts Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/08/03 05:03 PM
TW,

Regarding Halon. I heard when it was first outlawed that it is an ozone depleting chemical. I also heard that the oil companies used tons of it. If I remember right the reason they used it was they had to test their pumping stations. They would fill the pumping station with Halon when they would turn on the power, just in case there was any problems the station would not catch on fire.

Of course I coiuld be wrong, but that is what I remember.

Scott
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/09/03 04:10 AM
Sven,
The large diameter hose is used to provide a large volume of water to the Pump.
It's the pump that provides the pressure,
the size of Feeder, is governed by the type and number of deliveries(hoses) on the Output side of the pump.
Paul,
Our hydrants are also in the road, they have a 1 metre yellow circle around them, park anywhere in this circle, and it will cost you NZ$150, if you are caught.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/10/03 08:19 AM
Texas Ranger,
I've turned up to more than one fire call with the Fire Brigade, to find a burning car, house or whatever, only to find either everyone is in such a panic, that they don't know what is going on, or they are pointing a garden hose in the general direction(not at)of what is burning, instead they point it at the smoke for some odd reason, unfortunately, that's already burnt!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/11/03 10:17 AM
Since our blocks aren't nearly as big as US ones, hydrants are usually located only at the corners where it is illegal to park anyway. Sometimes you can also see them near garages. Most of our hydrants are beautiful retro sytle metal ones, about 4ft high.

The worst thing about the car incident was that the firefighters didn't seem to know what they were doing either!
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/12/03 12:35 AM
Ranger,
Yeah, I find that really amazing, the first thing they should have done was lift the bonnet(hood) to get better access to the fire.
Stands to reason, doesn't it?.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/12/03 02:07 PM
Definitely. And upon doing this they should have realized that the fire was actually beneath the car and not inside it.
It definitely gave us a good laugh, but it also scared us quite a bit when we thought of having to rely on these guys.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/12/03 09:55 PM
Ranger,
Yeah, you would sort of hope that they would know how to extinguish a burning house a bit better than just spraying the roof.
But what it really all comes down to, is the amount of initiative(common-sense)that the Fire-Fighters have.
You will be hoping that you don't have a serious incident(LPG Tanker,Hazmat)near your place any time soon.
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/13/03 04:22 AM
Good thing he parked with the shovel raised:
[Linked Image from 65.108.216.53]
Posted By: sparky Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/13/03 01:20 PM
what?....
no stories of FF's puttin' out car fires with magnesium blocks?.......
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Fire Extinguishers? - 04/14/03 02:18 AM
Sparky,
The last time I used magnesium, was 20-odd years ago in Chemistry class.
We burnt a piece, it was BRIGHT!! [Linked Image]
Sure you are not confused with something else?.
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