It is amazaing how different our estimates are from one another.. I mean essentially we all do the same thing. So just do a little test..
Lets say you are called to install 6 hi hats in a den. and a ceiling fan with no lights. You are to supply the hi hats and switches the homeowner will supply the ceiling fan. (Not purchased yet.) But the homeowner wants the hi hats on a dimmer and the fan on a fan speed controll.
*Side notes:
You have access to the attic area, above the den, where everything is open.
Existing switch on wall to switch outlet which they want to eliminate the switched outlet.
Existing service is a 60 amp federal pacific.
Hi Hats used Halo H7T old work with BR40 65 watt bulbs and white on white trims.
Ceiling fan to be installed at a later date. (When homeowner purchases fan)

For my estimate I would check the following first before estimating. I would trace the circuit, turn on all the appliances / lights on that circuit. Test the ampers to see if I have to run a new circuit.
I would then show the client/customer different lighting/hi hats and trim options to make sure there selection is truly what they want. This is done by means of catalogs or lap top.
If no additional circuits are needed I would fall to my basic prices. Old work hi hat installed for $125.00 per hi hat. upgarde from switch to dimmer $75.00 Fan controll $75.00. Fan installation $75.00 Total job would cost $975.00.

What would you charge??

James

If you're talking a paddle fan, I don't think it is possible to charge enough, I hate those things. I think your $75 charge is reasonable.

As for the recessed cans, be tough to get more than $75 or $80 around here & dimmers vary quite a bit in price, but a decent one would probably fetch $40 or so if it is replacing an existing switch. Probably about the same on the speed control.

Best I could hope for would be $700 which would include a separate trip to install the fan.

Can't wait to see what Virgil would get in his neck of the woods. Knowing his so called competition, bet it is in the $500 range. How about it '66?

J, I think we are on the same page. The only question I have would be about the fan. Is there a box there now? If not I would charge about $200 or so to wire the fan switch leg, install the fan box and come back to install the fan at a later date. Also when they bought a junk fan that hummed and wobbled and decided to return it for a good one (which I would push from the getgo) I would charge an extra $100 or so. Hey dont forget to give em the old Federal Pacific talk.

I use plastic boxs as much as possible and try to get $20.00 a opening on rough in but dont have a set price . if your poor i help, an if your rich i help more .

I liked the talk about the federal pacific.. I through that in to see if people would consider the price of the breaker if one is needed. I agree with the higher price on the fan simply because you never know what the homeowner will get. I had one homeowner where they wanted to replace all there ceiling fans in the home and would purchase them at a later date, while I was doing hi hats. Well when I was done with the hi hats, they came to spackle and paint. When all was ready fro the final installation of plates and fans the homeowner has 5 hunter originals delivered. For those who do not know about these fans they are about 40-50 pound cast iron fans. Unfortunatly, in the ceiling I left what was originally there a couple of bar braces. But hunter originals needed blocking above it, to drive a threaded I bolt through it. Needless to say I should of considered that or asked if that was one of there choices in fans. SO I had to open the ceiling up because there was no access to install bracing. Then I had to pay for a spackler and a painter to come in and repair what I had to do.. Could I of fought it? yes, but by me loosing the money I fortunatly made it up 10x's over by doing a landscape lighting job for the homeowner.

James

With full attic access--
$85.00 each hi-hat
$150.00 for fan including 2x4 support
35-45.00 to fish each switch

(I would be hard pressed to buy and install a FPE breaker)

I'm an estimator, but I wouldn't have clue as to how to do residential estimates. It is very difficult for me to give unit prices because the customer has a tendency to "gut" the project. Just as soon as I told someone that a Hi Hat is $125.00 per unit, installed, they would say, "OK, we want one."
To which I would reply, "Just one?" Customer says, "Yup, just one." I can tell you that it would probably cost us more than $125.00 just to set foot on their property. Now, if we were installing 10 of them, and the customer understands that deducting a fixture won't get him a full $125.00 deduct, I might be more willing to look at giving unit prices on an estimate.
Over here on the commercial/industrial side, things operate a little differently than the residential side. I'm not saying that either one is right or wrong, just different.
By the way, for those who have "microsoft excel", I have a spread sheet that I put together that might be of interest. Hit me with an e-mail, and I will send it to any who are interested.
Estimatologically Yours,
Doc
Director of Wattology, Electric University

Hmmm... Yeah Tom, with that said, I guess I need to figure here:

6 cans @ $8 = $48
6 Can trims (I'll assume step baffles) @16 = $96
Ceiling Fan Box = $5
Roll of 12-2 = $25
2 Gang Cut-In Box = $2.5
2 Gang Cover Plate = $.75
Dimmer 600W = $12
Speed Control = $15
Staples, Ground Screws and Wirenuts= $5
Roughly $210 for materials (no markup yet)...

And figure 8 hours @ $25 and you have a total of about $410. This figure will be turned down because "Uncle Bob can do it for free" or some other similar phrase...

Good guess there Tom...

With the FPE Breaker (I have an entire collection) I'd give it to them to keep from having anything on paper that said I installed it.

However, I would strongly suggest a panel change as soon as I saw the FPE panel.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-21-2002).]

Hey Tom, I don't know about 1966 but I do have some of my grandfathers old invoices from 1962. Anyone want to see them? It's hard to imagine anyone surviving on that kind of money.

How would I post them after they are scanned?

Wirewiz

[This message has been edited by wirewiz (edited 03-21-2002).]

First off, I would suggest upgrading the 60a panel, thats old. Otherwise sounds like your in the ballpark on prices.
You must live back east, I've never heard recessed cans called Hi-Hats, why do they call them that?
Arizona-

Yeah, the way I would do it is hire sparky66 and add 75% to his price.....

Darn it, Virgil!
You need to charge what you're worth, (sorry if you'd never get any work)
You continually underestimate your worth.
You're a pro. I know it, the rest of us here know it. I just wish your market would bear it
(And saw the pic. You look kinda' like Bob Dylan after a stretch on "The Rack" )

$150 per can for labor(discounted because ceiling/attic is supposedly open) + matl(fixtures) + $50/hr. playing at finding the right fixture for the owner...$250 minimum for the fan with caveat I inspect the fan first and the bid may go higher...$75 dimmer (if owner supplies it or accepts an 'off the shelf' model, $50/hr. if I have to go on a shopping spree for him)...$200 fan control (figuring new wiring, box) + cost of fan control).

I normally charge $200 per outlet (switch, recep, ceiling fixture), (more for ceiling fans) which includes most materials . . .I normally tell homeowner to go to a lighting showroom to find their fixture (rather than paying me $50/hr. to play with catalogs...they always go to the showroom when I tell them the catalog route can take 4-8 hrs. extra at a minimum....i.e. - get a catalog...play with homeowner...order fixtures....pickup fixtures). Almost all my clients are by referral and I get most of the jobs referred ('cept those who spoke with 'uncle Bob'...who paid $85 back in '42 to have his house wired).

I asked my buddy Joe Musser (Musser Electric) what he would charge for the items mentioned above...

$500 was his "shoot from the hip" response.

Looks like Tom guessed about the right price for this area...

On another note...

I was talked down on a bid for a 2700 sq ft house today, from $4350 to an even $4000...

That's $1.48 per sq ft, or $22.86 per stop.

3 ceiling fans, 6 can lights, a lamp post, 4 bathrooms, 3 bed, etc. etc.

I'm embarrassed...

I've already installed the service, so it's not included in the price.

Tom, if I were to move to another place in WV, (so I don't have to get all new licenses) what area would you recommend?

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-21-2002).]

It is amazing how far off we can be. I guess different states/area's play a role in the price but even still we should be somewhat close to one another. I also see $50.00 per hour a lot. Were most of you aware the national average is $65.00 per hour? When I heard that my prices went up to that.. But I still charge the contractors $50. I do one favor job more or less at cost for every contractor. I tell them to use it on there own house but sometimes they get into a jam and the favor comes in to play.. yatta yatta yatta, I like to ramble a little..
I like Manegt pricing best of all.. But I agree with electure, we should charge what we are worth. Lets not forget many people are afraid of electric and we put our lives on the line everytime we do it. We are the ones who went through the schooling, testing, digging those trenches as greenies.. So we should charge. As for the people who think well its just black to black and white to white. Well why are they calling you then? Your name and reputation goes on every job that you do. If something happens to injure or kill someone even 5 years down the road trust me they will know who to sue in court..
Curious about something else.. It seem's most of us charge $50.00 an hour for t&m jobs. What percentage do you mark up your material? Personally, contractors get a 25% markup and homeowner get a 50% markup on all material.

James

James and et al;
I use the Means electrical cost books, and their national average, for an electrician is $ 52.90/ hour this includes all benefits,workmans comp, fica and ad neuseum.
In my area the going rate is about 96.8% of the national average, the bigger the city the higher the wage rate.
-Mark-

Contractor or bid @ 20%,
Service calls @ 30%
Some get base=actual cost, others get right off of Traser or Biddle Book.
Just depends on how they act.

You know it's funny how we all speak in terms of how much everyone else charges. I think that the reason it is such an issue is because we live in a competitive market. I will add that I wouldn't have it any other way. Freedom! Amen!
What really matters is "how much things cost". If you can tell me how much it "costs" to run a service truck for a year, shop overhead, insurance, payroll, etc., etc., etc., I can tell how much needs to be charged for anything.
Our company doesn't do residential work, but I would have a very difficult time giving anyone a price based on openings, fixture types, etc., even if we did.
I respectfully ask, for someone to enlighten me on how this is done. Please open my eyes to the "residential electrical world". I'm honestly interested in how these estimates are calculated.

Hopelessly Blinded by Commercial Electric,
Doc

The problem is that there are too many people out there who know the actual cost of everything but the true value of nothing.

Fred, that's very elegantly put...

Sparky,

"That's $1.48 per sq ft, or $22.86 per stop."

I don't think that you should be ashamed of that price. We have trouble getting residential work at that rate, which is why we're not wiring many houses.

As a medium sized company it's hard to compete with the one man bands who will do it for less. Most of our residential work is referred and not out for competitive bids.

GJ

I concur, Master Spark. I concur.

I think part of the problem is that no two commercial jobs are the same. Different gear packages, fixture types, and the quality of both fixtures and gear make every commercial job vastly different. I may be able to get you "in the park" by square foot estimates, etc., but in order to get an accurate price, I have to do a detailed take-off and, get quotes from suppliers, fire alarm, sound systems, security, etc., etc., etc.

Still in the Dark about residential,
Doc
I may be in the dark, but I'm still smilin'.
See...that's me up there with that big ol' electric grin....kind of like when you get on a 277 volt circuit.