We have a flush mounted 100A. 20 circuit sub panelboard at one of our facilities. It's loaded to less than 50% ampacity. There are no spare spaces remaining. All of the 20 circuit breakers have a wire attached to it. Many of the circuits have a very small load on it. Would it be proper/legal to "double up" on some of the circuit breakers by splicing two circuits together in panelboard with pigtail of one wire to one breaker? We need to free up two spaces for a new 2 pole circuit.
Frank,
Might I suggest using tandem breakers instead of "doubling up" on the breakers? They are readily available for most panels. I know GE and Square D make them for their panels. They will allow you to keep the circuits seperated like they are now and probably intended to be. Saves a lot of trouble down the road.
Frank,
Not a problem. Splices are OK as long as there's room for them.
Bill
If you're certain that the load on 2 particular branches is that light, there should be no reason you can't combine them with a pigtail. I wouldn't do it as regular practice though. Art 373-8 ('99 code. sorry, I don't feel like going to my truck) allows the splice.
Remember some breaker terminals will accomodate 2 terminations. Sq.D QO, for one. And I believe Pushmatics design permits it as well.
I always use the pigtail method. We use mostly SQ D & our local SQ D rep told me that even though the QO breakers have 2 "tunnels" for wires they are only (UL) approved for one. He had no idea why SQ D puts 2 "tunnels" on the pressure clamp. (And our local inspectors will usually not allow two on the CB.)
If you combine two branch circuits, make sure that they are not parts of a multiwire branch circuit to avoid possible overload on the grounded conductor.
Don(resqcapt19)
Steve Miller,
Go back and talk to your Square D rep again. I have a QO breaker in my hands the wiring diagram shows 2 wires and the UL label gives torque specs for two wires also.
bigbluewirenut,
Do not use tandem breakers unless your panel is designed for them (it must have a Class CTL label). Never ever put more circuits into panel than it is listed for.
What is the difference between a panelbox that will allow tandem breakers and one that won't? If the panel is old and missing the CTL label is it possible that tandem breakers are still OK? Does the number of neutral wire conncections on the neutral bar mean anything? i.e. there are a lot more holes that spaces for single breakers. Of course some are for different size wires.
The total load on the panel can't increase past the main breaker ampacity of course.
Never seen tandum breakers in a comercial setting.
Tom:
I am curious as to the difference too? I have never seen a CTL panel that will not accept tandem breakers and I have seen a lot of tandem breakers in use. (Even newly inspected installations that passed.) As you said, you still cannot exceed the amperage rating of the main breaker.
JDB:
"Go back and talk to your Square D rep again. I have a QO breaker in my hands the wiring diagram shows 2 wires and the UL label gives torque specs for two wires also."
My box of 10 20A QO's don't seem to say anything about being rated for 2 wires under the screw?
"Do not use tandem breakers unless your panel is designed for them (it must have a Class CTL label). Never ever put more circuits into panel than it is listed for."
The last time we checked with our Square D rep, ALL QO panels where listed to accept tandem breakers. Rep: "We wouldn't make the breakers, if the panel wouldn't be able to take them."
Are we talking about the same Square D here? Is there a rep in the group that can shed some light here?
[This message has been edited by bigbluewirenut (edited 01-17-2002).]
QO breakers up to 30 amps are listed for two conducotrs. Look at page 6 of the manual. http://www.squared.com/us/products/circuitb.nsf/07a0210021262d45862564b5006e4f84/41d81302e54de2a9852566c1004dd58c/$FILE/0730CT9801.pdf
resq - Thanks for the info.
bigbluewirenut,
In my past life I worked as a Square D Field Engineer for 11 years. You need to talk to your SQD residential expert.
The use of non-Class CTL breakers in non-Class CTL panels is a violation of the UL listing. Is it done often? You betcha, but it still ain't legit.
To my knowledge there are no non-residential panelboards that are Class CTL. In fact the Square D Digest says these "cheater" breakers are for use in single-phase QO loadcenters and not in NQOD commercial/industrial panelboards, quote "Replacement Tandem Breakers for Use In Old Style Non-Class CTL QO Load Centers".
resqcapt1 Thanks for the Sq D ref. I dern sure printed the whole book and now have it in my service truck for the next time my inspector questions this.
JDB,
Thanks for clarification. I was going by what our rep. said and by what I have seen in the field. Yes, I have seen new installations, inspected and passed with tandem breakers installed. An yes they have been on NQOD panels. Does Square D have a traveling showroom? (Like Sylvania's light mobile.) We could sure use a visit up here in PA to get some issues straigtened out. Thanks again.
I emailed this to a Square D rep about 2 wires under one clamp on QO breakers.
Youare correct the QO 15 thru 30amps are UL'ed to
accept 2 conductors per the 0730CT9801 you
refferenced.
Thank you for your Square D inquiry
Schneider Electric/Square D Company
Jim Betournay
Product Support Specialist
Customer Information Center
1-888-778-2733
He has been most helpful.
P.S. does anyone else receive the Teamworks news email from Square D?