Just curious, what’s your thoughts on the Generator Interlocks?

They don't look fail safe to me.
http://www.interlockkit.com/

Had a similar set-up on UPS system panelboards, but it was "factory" installed, not an aftermarket 'add in'

Mechanical type interlocks have been around for a long time.

This seems like a good idea for a manual transfer setup. Now I ask....is the backfed cb bolted down (or clipped)???

John

John, you're a trouble maker aren't you?


Roger


[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 02-23-2007).]

Roger:
Now that comment I would expect from Bob (Iwire). Now where is George Little??

John

Even the high-dollar interlocks can be bypassed with a screwdriver. But we swear by them just the same- sure, I'd like to think nobody is stupid enough to close the tie breaker while the two halves of the switchboard are fed from separated sources, BUT...

So, yeah, I use a lot of interlocks but bypass a lot of interlocks during non-standard evolutions, too. Their purpose is not so much to force the "expert" into a certain sequence but moreso to protect the idiot from blowing something up. I don't have any experience with this brand, but it looks like it could easily save someone the cost of an MTS

Idiot proof is only good until the "better" idiot comes along.

I'll be giving one of these a try in the next month or so. This interlock offers a few advantages that I can see, namely, my customer does not have to make up his mind which circuits he wants on a separate panel. This interlock is also going to be handy due to a lack of space to mount another panelboard.

That better idiot mentioned above probably lives here in the Mountain State. We seem to lead the nation in the bad categories & trail in the good ones.

Tom

Tom:
I doubt that you have the market cornered in 'better idiots'.

John

No doubt someone is going to try and defeat the interlock! Why? Someone will probably figure they can TRY and lower their electric bill if they have their generator running at the same time their panel is being supplied off mains power OR they don't want to have their lights go out for that split second when they transfer back from gennie supply to mains supply.
Trust me I know people that would want to do that.. All I say is " good luck" to them!

A.D

Nothing is truly idiot proof, just idiot resistant

Used it. Loved it. Highly recommend it.

(uncompensated endorsment)

Love them, much more flexibility over a small manual transfer switch. Square D and I believe Siemans makes their own now, much less money than the one in the link.

[This message has been edited by LoneGunman (edited 02-27-2007).]

Like the add... "Now listed to UL standards" As if they have been selling them forever and just finanaly got the right people to pick up an envelope of a cafe table...

Hotline1 got the back-fed breaker there - I am also wondering if the panel also needs to be listed as transfer equipment.


Do they provide you with switch duty breakers?

I bought and installed a square D interlock plate for the 200A resi panel in my home. Generator is a 13kW mobile PTO unit plug and cord connected using bus drop cable. Installed a 50A breaker in position 2 and have never looked back - it's great. AHJ passed it on inspection first time without issue. Total cost was $45 plus $11 for the breaker. On the switch rated question, the instructions specifically say to turn off all individual breakers, energise the 50A back-fed breaker once the PTO is interconnected and running, and THEN energise the individual branch circuits you want to use (this was the major motivation for me to use this route - I wanted to control which circuits to use). So if you are following instructions the breaker is not used to switch the load. In any case if it's rated at 50A why couldn't you use it for emergency switching (not like it's being used often), it's rated for 50A.

In my experiences with numerous Wireless (Cellular Telephone, E911, Microwave backhaul) sites. This seams to be a preferred design for emergency power provisioning.

Especially when pulling up a trailer mounted genset.

It also cuts down on points of failure and can be considered as a good example of KISS "keep it simple stupid" design.

Thanks for the support from most of you in this forum.

As the manufacturer of the Interlock Kit we are determined to remedy all the questions asked in the market about our product.

We assure that our product is safe, NEC code compliant, and Listed to UL standards.

GO TO www.interlockkit.com to see the real advantage over the traditional installations of transfer switches.

On that note, I wanted to comment on the listing of the product and some concerns that have been raised.

Our product is considered an Accessory to a panel. Meaning that we do not fit in the UL area of transfer switches. Since the interlock kit does NOT possess any electrical components nor does it actually transfer power from the main to the generator we are considered accessories.

The user or homeowner is actually the transfering of the power solely putting the task of actually turning off one breaker and then turning on the other to feed the panel. So in essence the user of the interlock kit is actually the Transferer of power.

Thanks,
Ryan

Gee...when did we start accepting commercials on this forum??

...and it's not the equipment's job to transfer power; the guy flipping the switch is technically "the transferer of power".

Now it sounds even more like snake oil.

I think the principle of interlocking the breakers so you can't back feed the grid is sound. You would have evaluate each product to decide whether you believe the execution is done properly. I think if it is sold by the OEM it should be OK. For a residential application where automatic switching is not required this may be the easiest option. Just be sure the O/C device selected for the generator side is sized properly and the actual installation of the interlock is done per manufacturer spec. You could still run into a 110.3(B) problem if the panel manufacturer says a 3d party model is not equal to their device (like the challenger breaker problem). I suppose when 3d party interlocks start competing with the panel manufacturer's model in any significant way we will hear about this one.

Seems fair to me that Ryan replied. Questions were asked about the product and the answers came back from the company. It's a simple mechanical interlock, period. You can't criticise products just because they don't cater 100% against Darwin Award candidates. I could cook my head in the microwave if I disabled the door microswitch with a screwdriver.

Ghost, you are right, we don't accept or allow commercials in the forums but, in this case I don't think Ryan's post is a commercial.

The thread was started by a member two months ago and was specifically asking about this product, the OP even included a link to the product.

Roger

I could enjoy the threads just for Alan's signature lines. "The gene pool needs a little chlorine." I love it. Back in the Jurassic era I sold pool chemicals. I wonder if the gene pool could stand a shock treatment.

I have a problem with the way they show their typical install on their site:
http://www.interlockkit.com/typicalinstall1.htm
Since when do you backfeed into a convenience outlet?

I flipped through their catalog and found a picture of what they're calling their "convenience outlet". It doesn't call for a suicide cord (thank goodness), but it has blades that are de-energized until the panel breaker is closed...which can't be done until the main is opened; so that's safe.
I wish that they had called it something else, like a "generator input receptacle" to stop the average homeowner who finds this product from thinking that this is justification for cobbling together the dangerous 'backfeed the dryer outlet' trick.
This seems to be safe when properly installed, but I don't always trust that the installations will follow the instructions as methodically as the manufacturer would like.
I could easily see the HO removing or bending the plate that allows only 1 breaker to be closed at a time. It also only works with specific breaker locations, so the panel will need to have the branch breakers relocated. If this ever needed work, I can hear the same comments that are on this forum coming out of the mouth of the guy who has to fix this if it ever fails.
Besides, the cost of the interlock kit, special generator cable, wiring device and panel rework is pretty high; high enough to scare off many of the 'cheap' HO market. Remember how often we see a $1 million house with an owner who doesn't want to 'waste' $100 on a safety-related item. Personally, when all is said and done, I'd rather have a standard transfer switch installed...but that's just me.

Thanks Ghost, I found the "convenience outlet" you are referring to under the Optional Parts page. I agree that it should be called something else.

Looking only briefly at this site, I found this disturbing statement: "The interlock kit allows only one of these feed systems to be operational at one time, protecting the panel from being overloaded by both sources".

Seeing something like this gives me plenty of reason to question their entire understanding of the conecpt of providing emergency power. I guess the concept of backfed power entering other homes on the same transformer, voltage being stepped up by the transformer going to God-knows-where, and the poor POCO lineman who comes in contact with it doesn't figure with these guys.

Mike (mamills)

Mike [Mamills]:

I agree with you with that sisuation for the stand by generator hookup and the interlock kit but what really nearly blew me apart that what if some stupid DIY's get the cover off and try to fiddle around with something and if they have the genny running and got the main breaker on the same time you know what the result

I just rather just jusfity spend little extra money to get the real transfer switch and elmated that silly gimzo there.

And also i was looking at the website about the interlock kit i think they should reword the outlet to the INLET with twist lock so they dont have a funny idea with this at all.

Merci, Marc

I caught the state using a (female) L6-30R to feed a transfer switch at my toll booths. The scary thing was this was a mastered plan and they said they built a bunch of them like this with no complaints.

Gentlemen,

I apologize if my reply was taken as a commercial. It was not intended to sell the interlock kit. Yet, I did feel as though I needed to clear a few things up from past posts.

I understand that some are not too fond of the wording of our "convenience outlet."

The actual part name from the manufacturer is a "Power Inlet Box". Maybe we should think about changing back to that.

As for the concerns about the removing the dead front cover and being able to bend the plates to force the breakers on that is another thing.

The plates are made of stainless steel and the pictures online don't do the Interlock Kit any justice in terms of appearance. Beleive me they aren't as crude as they were originally as in the picture discussed. Yet being made of stainless steel, the degree of effort to bend this kit is tremendous. Along with the mounting screws that are also stainless, I don't see the bending effect to be any sort of problem in the installation of the device.

For removing the dead front cover, well that is just something that we are going to have to reiterate to the home owner while installing the kit.

Installers and electricians are only liable for what the instructions say as the correct installation. If a homeowner decides to take the panel off and play with the circuits, then we cannot be held accountable for that. Even with the Cutler Hammer dead fronts that have the kit already installed, if you remove the cover you can still get hurt, any open panel can be potentially hazardous.

We do make kits that are not readily available to certain panels, retro fitting to almost any manufacturer. Giving the option of saving time and money to both the contractor and the homeowner.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Ryan