Could someone please tell me what the difference is between a General and a Residential Journeyman? No, not just what laws are out there... These are the two new CA classifications...

I mean what is a "Residential Electrician"? And why would the skills or knowledge be any different?

I've only taken the General Jman test, but I assume there wouldn't be all the fire alarm system, 3 phase, show window, 180VA/yoke, etc.. type questions on the test....

In St. Louis we only have contractor licenses but as a contractor I can tell that there is a major difference between a good commerical or general electrician and an individual who is rated for residential. The residential electrical is good with romex and single phase. I have an individual who is a great residential guy but don't ask him to work solo in a commerical job. He just doesn't understand three phase and would have trouble with laying out circuits and motor loads. There any people who work in residential new construction all the time and there skills are good for what they do , just as a good commerical guy doesn't do well in the residential setting.

I am not from california, but it is probably similar. here we have special low voltage, can only do lv, special residential, can only do residential and a couple other special licneces. we then have the general electrician though that term is not actually used.

One covers all of the above, the others are limits on what a person can do. And yes the skills sets are very different.

I believe that the distinction was first made by the IBEW. They have had, for some time, "Inside Wireman" and "Residential Wireman" classifications.

"Inside Wiremen," if I remember correctly, is what most of us think of when we say "electrician." There is a 5 year apprenticeship.

"Residential Wiremen" is a 3 year apprenticeship, and has a lower pay scale.

And .. for those who ask ... "Outside Wireman" was the term for PoCo linemen.

Below are the license types for electricians in the state of Utah.

License Types
Apprentice Electrician
Journeyman Electrician
Master Electrician
Residential Journeyman Electrician
Residential Master Electrician

This is the link to the rules & qualifications for each license type. http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/statutes_and_rules/R156-55b.pdf



[This message has been edited by A-Line (edited 01-28-2007).]

reno,
I can only speak for my local where the scale and bennies are identical..for both JW and RW

and JWs can work in Residential, but
RWs cannot do commercial or industiral

other than that you are 100% correct

Here in Connecticut, there is two "electrical" licenses’, E1 and E2

An E1 can do any form of electrical work; up to the power company connection point, an E2 can do the same, but only in the employ of an E1. Apprentices don't count as E2 till they have passed an exam.

There used to be an E-9 license here for Residential only, but that got phased out many years ago.

As far as low voltage, there is wayyyyy to many licenses’ [see below] phone only, low voltage upto x voltage, low voltage up to y voltage, kinda confusing, and sadly, those separation lines are crossed often.

Pulled fro State of Ct, Department of Consumer Protection

Dollar amounts are the yearly fee, not including newly required continuing education


"Electrical work" means the installation, erection, maintenance, alteration or repair of any wire, cable, conduit, busway, raceway, support, insulator, conductor, appliance, apparatus, fixture or equipment which generates, transforms, transmits or uses electrical energy for light, heat, power or other purposes.
E-1 Unlimited Electrical Contractor - $75.00
The holder of this license may do all electrical work as defined in section 20-330 of the General Statutes.
E-2 Unlimited Electrical Journeyperson - $45.00
The holder of this license may do the same work as an E-1 licensee, but only while in the employ of a contractor licensed for such work. OJT = 8000 hours RI = 576 hours

L-5 Limited Electrical Contractor - $75.00
The holder of this license may perform only work limited to ADT, similar or low voltage signal work, audio and sound systems. The installation or repair of any electrical work for plating or similar low voltage work is not authorized. The voltage of the system is not to exceed 25 volts or five amperes where such work commences at an outlet receptacle or connection previously installed by a person holding the proper electrical license.

L-6 Limited Electrical Journeyperson - $45.00
The holder of this license may perform the same work as the L-5 licensee, but only while in the employ of a contractor licensed for such work. OJT = 4000 hours RI = 288 hours

C-5 Limited Electrical Contractor - $75.00
The holder of this license may perform only work limited to ADT, similar or low voltage signal work, audio and sound systems, and telephone-interconnect systems. The installation, repair, maintenance of any electrical work for plating is not authorized. The voltage of any system is not to exceed forty-eight (48 ) volts or five (5) amperes where such work commences at an outlet receptacle or connection previously installed by a person holding the proper electrical license.

C-6 Limited Electrical Journeyperson - $45.00
The holder of this license may perform the same work as the C-5 licensee, but only while in the employ of a contractor licensed for such work. OJT = 4000 hours RI = 288 hours

T-1 Limited Electrical Contractor - $75.00
The holder of this license may perform only work limited to telephone-interconnect systems where such work commences at an outlet receptacle or connection previously installed by a person holding the proper electrical license.

T-2 Limited Electrical Journeyperson - $45.00
The holder of this license may perform the same work as the T-1 licensee, but only while in the employ of contractor licensed for such work.

Requirements for this exam: completion of a bona fide apprenticeship program or at least four years of equivalent experience and training or five years as a registered public service technician. OJT = 4000 hours RI = 288 hours

L-1 Limited Electrical Line Contractor - $75.00
The holder of this license may perform only work limited to line construction, including distribution systems, and their allied work, for public and private companies; installation,
maintenance repair of all high voltage cable splicing and pulling wire for all systems in excess of 2,400 volts; traffic signal and highway lighting installation, maintenance and repair.
L-2 Limited Electrical Line Journeyperson - $45.00
The holder of this license may perform the same work as an L-1 licensee, but only while in the employ of a contractor licensed for such work. OJT = 8000 hours RI = 576 hours
Elevator Installation, Repair & Maintenance Work Licenses: Licenses Expire annually: August 31st

So some of you say "Skills'? I don't buy it....

Residential is not off limits for pipe work, exterior, services, and locally here anything below 8' can not be exposed MN, or MC. We have many class 2 structures as residential highrises. Multi-unit buildings with 120/208 services, and 277/480 common area lighting and equipment. A difference in voltage is also not a 'skill'. I dont see much of a difference in calculations, spare a few factors of 3 phase - but the math is at no higher level. Even into explosion proof - I do not see that as a 'skill' - sure some added knowledge about the design and sealing - but not a 'skill'....

IMO it is a form of disenfranchisement. Not by limiting one person to residential work, but limiting him from competetion for other work!

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_900/OAR_918/918_282.html


This is Oregons definition.

You are limited as to what you can do.
Also alot less $.

Florida only licenses the contractors (the owner), the wireman is not licensed although some jurisdictions have a journeyman card. Rules vary widely about what that means.

FWIW, I've wired homes for a steel plant electrician and an AF aircraft electrician who once traveled with the Thunderbirds. Neither had a clue about resi wiring.

South Carolina 2 Types

Master
Journeyman

In my opinion I can't see how one cannot see the different skills involved with commercial and residential.

This may sound overly simplified but, there is more to being an Journeyman Wireman (Commercial work)than electrical and vice versa. A large amount of which is not able to be tested.

Much of commercial work is being a good "mechanic".

So in no particular order, a few examples lol

Larger Service sizes and the implications, bigger wire& cable, bigger material,bigger and more varied tools, switchgear

More panels, differing voltages, transformers, larger variety of lighting and associated hardware

More Building in general, i.e. pipe racks, equipment racks, on and on.

if anyone can add please do

BTW, please, please do not take this as a flame generator...I am not in any way shape or form saying Resi vs commercial is better one way or the other.

Every guy who does a lot of big work knows alot of guys who couldn't wire a 3-way or do a service call, troubleshoot a circuit, etc etc

Ain't that the truth.

I once worked with a guy who was layed from the union and had no idea how to wire a 3-way switch, muchless perform a 200AMP service upgrade. But that's okay, I haven't done many 500kcmil pulls. Your point is well taken.

I believe there's a real big difference between commercial and residential. In commercial installations, I believe you really need to know a lot to be able say yeah I know how to do that. Most of the work is drawn-up on a blue print so as long as you're somewhat knowledgable in doing that, how can you go wrong? I say that loosely because obviously things can go wrong.

In residential, after a year or two of wiring new homes there really isn't too much more you're going to learn that you haven't learned already. After learning some basic code requirements for receptacle placement, bathrooms, kitchens, basements, HVAC equipment, and services, the work is all repetitive. After that it's all about how fast you can get the work done.

Now, doing old work and service calls in 100-year old homes is another story. The learning there never ends.

From an "out of town" perspective, we work on one Registration, Electrician.
You have to pass the same exam as everyone else and that puts you in the same boat as your peers.
No-one has anything over anyone apart from years of experience.
Over here you can work on any system or voltage as long as it is not carried on poles or carries HV or above that.
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Disregard that above statement, as far as security wiring goes, that is a whole different kettle of fish, most security installers here don't hold Electrical Registration as Electricians, a lot of Electricians here wouldn't know where to start with a Security or Fire Alarm system.
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And yes, we have the multi-guess exams here these days too.

You know, even though there are countless specialties in medicine, all MD's have the same exact state license. Even though a brain surgeon can legally operate on your knee, I doubt you would ask him to!

Electric work is something like that. Apart from the related "side" trades (alarms, CATV, phone, data, etc.), within the trade is everything from pulling rope to PLC's.

While I like to think that I have a broader range than most, I recognize that every task calls for different attitudes. So, when I am done hanging pipe, I will take a short break to "adjust my attitude" before I start pulling wire, etc.

I expect the distinctions between residential and general electricians to blur with time. Homes are getting to be far more complex; I've seen PLC's and VFD's in some. The guy who can only "rope" a house is a dying breed.

Reno, your response is well thought out, as is ShockMe (Ron)

NJ has a Lic Electrical Contractor and a Business Permit is REQUIRED to operate.

That said, there are also various 'low voltage' "titles" alarm (fire/burg), telephone "exempt card", etc. The Lic EC can 'do-it-all'. Some do, some don't. Our Board of Examiners also issues a 'Journeyman Card', although I have never seen one. It is not valid to perform work for hire (contracting)

As to the commentary; yse, I know resi guys that can get lost in a retail store job, and I know comm/ind guys that can't do 'house work', unless it's pipe. As Ron said, trouble and rework in old houses (fish, etc) is another animal, that craft comes from patience and EXPERIENCE.

John