ECN Forum
Posted By: Rewired Just can't have nice things! - 01/26/07 10:50 PM
Well, once again, its happened... I was leaving for work about 7:40 this morning, opened the door to my own truck and found it had been broken into sometime in the night.. Nothing was taken that I noticed as I have nothing of value in the truck ( I always bring my hand tools in the house if I bring them home). The only damage was the door handle, and some sheetmetal and a LOT of scratches in the paint. It was then I noticed the kid up the street, his car had its door wide open, broken glass everywhere, speaker box on the ground, and the girl across in the court her car had its door handle pulled out and her stereo gone.
Just goes to show you cant have nice things without someone trying to take them from you!

A.D
Posted By: BigB Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 12:03 AM
It is out of hand. Someone on my street saw 2 people breaking in to a neighbors house. She called 911, the police said there was no one available in the area for immediate response. The thieves got what they wanted and the police showed up 45 minutes later.
I think we are going to see more people taking matters into their own hands. If I caught someone ripping me off, hard to say what I might do. In the past year we have had at least 3 thieves shot and killed by homeowners. In two instances the thieves forced their way in while the people were home watching TV. No charges filed in any of the cases.
A few years ago an old man saw someone stealing meat from a freezer he kept outside. He shot and killed them. Again, no charges were filed.
Posted By: e57 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 12:20 AM
Might I suggest some flood lighting and cameras. And in general an alarm system for each of the vehicals, especially yours.

Not that you should be required to have such things to deter this type of assault on property, but it does help. You can guarantee these types of people will come back, and it should be as unwelcoming as possible. If it was easy for them to break into at least 3 cars in the same general area they found it obviously easy pickins'.

Don't get me wrong, in 2006 I had 8 attempted breakins of my van. I've gotten warnings from the cops after mashing some kids face into the gutter after he set my alarm off, and chased another off with a bender handle - had I been a little quicker I would have split his skull. (Below)
[Linked Image from markhellerelectric.com]
This pic was before the flood lighting that act as secondary street lighting. IR cameras are a bit grainy and black & white, but add a bit of light you'll get get good color pictures of them. I also use the cameras as motion sensors, so any movement in the protected area turns on the 500w floods - it's like daylight... Or the deck of a fishing boat at night... I get pictures of people about to check my doors - the lights go on, and they keep walkin'

Not that is the end all deterant, as I was having a New Years Party with 40+ people in the house, and some dope still tried my doors of the van. But now I know who he is...

I also know how many dogs use my lawn, and when the Jehovas have been to my door.
Posted By: DougW Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 01:20 AM
Quote
Originallp Posted By e57:
Don't get me wrong, in 2006 I had 8 attempted breakins of my van. I've gotten warnings from the cops after mashing some kids face into the gutter after he set my alarm off, and chased another off with a bender handle - had I been a little quicker I would have split his skull.

Warnings from the cops? The only problem I can see is that the gutter technically isn't on your property. Next time I'd drop 'em as they were leaning in the van scoopin' up your stuff, and call the cops as a combination courtesy and request for clean up.

I've got several friends on multiple PD's so this isn't intended as a bash, but the truth is, the PDs have no obligation to protect us from crime, simply to respond to our calls, process evidence, and present information to the DAs for prosecution.

The only way the scum won't escalate their breakins is if they are caught red handed, either by the PD or a PO'd contractor, and the correct results occur.
Posted By: e57 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 08:46 AM
The warnings were because what I did could be a chargable 'assault' - against people trying to rip me off. The last one, the guy pictured above came back, thats when I chased him off while waiting more than 3 hours for the cops to come....

I wonder... Is it considered non-lethal to use... say - Birdshot, then Deerslugs?

Anyway, the lights really do help - and it is something we can all do. The cameras just keep me in check from bashing in the heads of the wrong persons, and allow me to focus on the right ones.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 12:12 PM
Mark,
This sort of thing is a very emotive situation.
With "the guy" trying to break into you van and your livelihood.
I would feel the same to be honest, but to aim a loaded firearm at another human being in civillian life?.
I've been a hunter for over 20 years and I could never shoot a fellow human being.
I have 2 shotguns and 8 rifles here, unless I was directly threatened inside my house here wouldn't I even think of loading a rifle or shotgun.
Under current NZ law you have to keep your rifle, ammo, the bolt and the magazine in 4 different places within your residence.
The Police here check you here every 6 months.
That is if you have a gun licence.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 12:57 PM
Quote
She called 911, the police said there was no one available in the area for immediate response. The thieves got what they wanted and the police showed up 45 minutes later.

Over here, all you'd have to do is tell the police "No hurry, I've just knocked the thief unconscious." They'd be there in 2 minutes flat to arrest you for assaulting the intruder. Tell 'em you have a gun on him and it'll be 30 seconds. [Linked Image]
Posted By: circuit man Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 01:24 PM
well around this neck of the woods we have neighbors that watch out for each other.if any one comes up they politely ask what there doing other wise they just tend to leave.i belive the floodlights & security camera are a good ideal.as for the law getting here usually about 15 minutes.were the same way here also if ya shoot the fool or knock the crap out of him, you're the one going jail & not the thief.boy is it a sad day for the honest man!
Posted By: Zapped Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 02:34 PM
Here's a new one that I'll post as a warning.

Had one of my high end clients, in a very prominent area, robbed while he was out of the country. The police said they had about 20 in the last couple of weeks, and they had an interesting approach to their robberies.

They apparently go door to door and knock to see if anyone is home. If someone DOES answer, they say they just moved into the area and are greeting their "new neighbors". If no one answers, they break in.

They just got away with small items, like jewelery and cameras and whatnot - stuff they can conceal upon exit - but that stuff can add up to thousands of $$, and somethings are irreplaceable.

Just another thing to worry about in a world full of ***holes.

So, always try to remember the faces and characteristics of people that come to your door for seemingly harmless reasons. You never know...

As far as the controversy over violence to another human being, I'm a little ashamed to say that I'm pro-violence in the act of protecting my hard earned property. It's not like we sit around all day gabbing by the watercooler - we work for a living.

Taking a mans tools with which he makes a living is right up with with horse-theiving in the old west. A hanging offence...
Posted By: Admin Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 04:42 PM
Folks,

This is something that can easily invoke strong emotions. I can certainly sympathize with some of these, but if this discussion is to continue let's focus on ways to deter theft that don't include threat (or promise) of physical harm.

Bill
Posted By: Rewired Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 05:26 PM
I kind of had the feeling this would trigger a few responses!

E57: The camera idea is a good thing and I will be looking into them but as far as lighting, my truck was parked on the street , in front of my house and directly under a 100W HPS street light. As a matter of fact all 3 vehicles were in well lit areas and all were parked on the street.. It did appear they were looking in a few parked in driveways but close to the road. The girl across the street even had an alarm on her car but no one really paid any attention to it I guess, even neighbours a block over heard it going off at 5 AM. Pretty brave individuals as a lot of people are up for work at that time especially a few of the neighbours that live on this street. If I do get an alarm it will have to have a pager of some sort and sound unique.
As for a deterrent, perhaps there is some way to connect an ignition coil of some sort under the door handle of my truck, just to give any would be thief a belt across his fingers??? [Linked Image]

A.D
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 06:57 PM
I'm not about to "blame the victim." I agree whole-heartedly with Miss Congeniality: We need stronger penalties for parole violators!

Yet ... let's look at this from a different perspective.

The "Church" has a doctrine that says we all are subject to temptation. So, now I ask: What make YOU want to steal?

For myself, I find I have a real attraction to "shiny things." I can go into a store, having just parked a truck full of screwdrivers .. but as soon as I see the nice shiny new packaged screwdrivers offered for sale, I want one! (No, I don't steal ... but the desire to 'get one' is there).

I suspect that merchants know this, and that is the real reason so much attention is paid to packaging and display.

Now, let's apply that to our problem. I have had great success in using stuff that is dull, ugly, marked, and of obscure brand.
I seem to hold onto stuff longer when it is either displayed so well that an empty slot really stands out, or when it's not displayed at all. That fancy plastic red box that says "Milwaukee" seems to 'walk away' a lot quicker than the old army ammo can that REALLY has the tool in it.

I have even used the opposite tack: painting aluminum pipe wrenches "cast iron orange" .... and I couldn't GIVE them away!

Then there is the matter of effort. If crooks wanted to work, they'd have jobs. Hefty locks, screened windows, etc., all say "work required." The casual, impulsive, idle hands will move on.

A lot is to be said for both the neighbors and the police. My area has LOTS of transients ... but neighbors look out for each other, so the transients behave. The police, on the other hand, seem to "reduce" crime by keeping you from reporting it.

It has been said that 'poverty breeds crime.' I believe that this saying has it exactly backwards. I hold that crime breeds poverty.
Why strive for nice things if they'll only be taken away?

Prevention - Deterrence - Alarm - Response - Action. This is our 'ladder' of activity. I think we can agree that it's best to stop things as early as possible on this ladder.

My area isn't as bad as some say. I have to go now ... I have a second job ... as tail-gunner on a bread truck [Linked Image]
Posted By: LK Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 08:17 PM
"Over here, all you'd have to do is tell the police "No hurry, I've just knocked the thief unconscious." They'd be there in 2 minutes flat to arrest you for assaulting the intruder. Tell 'em you have a gun on him and it'll be 30 seconds."

Sort of funny, just to bad it is the way things are done.

1)When there is a hold up in progress, it is important to remember the longest route to the scene.

2) Pay attention and listen to your radio, for the dispatcher telling you the owner just notified us the bandits left the scene.

3) Turn on lights and siren, Comb your hair, brush any lint off your uniform, and find the quickest route, pull in to the location with siren screeming, jump out and act concerned.

Another job well done!

The good news is not all police departments work this way, but the good departments need your help, in keeping crime down, as said in some of the posts, take all the preventive measures you can, don't be afraid to notify the police if you suspect a problem, most departments are run well, but like any other working group, they have their share of low production people.
Posted By: Ralpha494 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 09:24 PM
Reminds me of a story.

A guy calls the police when he sees somebody breaking into his service truck.
The police say "There's nobody available to help you."
He hangs up the phone and calls them right back and says "Never mind, I just shot and killed him." and hangs up again.
The police get there, catch the guy red handed, but ask "I thought you said that you shot and killed him?"
To which he responds "I thought you said nobody was available to help."
Posted By: e57 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 10:47 PM
I hope I wasn't mis-understood to be advocating violence - although it has come down to that for me here on those occasions, it is not my first choice. But presented with thief in site and reach, I tend to speak a language that is easily understood that the task at hand is going to be difficult for them. Unfortunately it is something that comes to me instinctualy from having grown up in and around the crime riddled housing projects of the Boston area.

My first choice is to sleep through the night undisturbed by car alarms, particularly my own... (although I go out for all that I hear.) Which is why I do advocate lights, alarms and cameras, that have helped my own situation. I also subscribe to the "Broken Glass Therory", that your neighborhood should not appear appathetic to crime. If you allow this type of crime to take hold at the sidewalk, (where my van is parked) the next step is inside your home, which has also happened here to me, with only my cat as a witness. (I unfortunatly suspect a painting contractor for that one... So little was disturbed that the thief either spent 8 hours in my house carefully looking around, or 8 hours on the clock looking for things prior.)
Posted By: walrus Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/27/07 11:27 PM
I live in a town with no police dept. The county sheriffs office is supposed to be our police. In the 16 years I've lived here you could count on one hand how many times I've seen the sheriff or the State police cruising our roads. The sheriffs dept is closed [Linked Image] from 1 am to 7 am every day. On the other hand, I never lock my door, my truck is wide open as is my shop. Money may be hard to come by but I love Maine.
Posted By: Niko Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 12:34 AM
I am thinking of installing my own alarm system on the doors of my van with a very annoying sound . This way the only time the alarm will sound is when someone is trying to break in.
Off the shelf alarms are so sensitive that when the garbage truck drives by the alarm goes off, and thinking oh it is the trash truck and one doesn't go outside and check.

Edward
Posted By: e57 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 06:27 AM
Niko just use a regular alarm ~$40 or < just don't use the glass break sensor - although they do work wonders when the glass breaks... And often thieves will just break the window and climb or reach in.
Posted By: Rowdy Rudy Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 10:26 AM
It's about 4:10 A.M. now and the cops just left. Hearse left about 3:30 A.M. At about 2:40 A.M. I was awakened by gunfire, engine noise, and yelling. Called 911, got my .357, and went next door. Neighbor had caught 3 dudes breaking into his garage/workshop. He confronted them and they tried to run him down with their car. He shotgunned them at that time and one deceased and one injured. Third took off running and I nailed him as he rounded the house and we came face to face. Didn't have to shoot him as he laid down quickly. Seems as if they have been burglarizing to steal tools and copper. All have warrants and long records. Car was loaded with tools marked with name of local EC. Looked out window and TV truck has just pulled in. There have been clips about copper theft in the past week or two on TV. Good riddance of at least one ******* and jail for two.
Rowdy
Posted By: Rowdy Rudy Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 11:02 AM
Not a TV truck but the crime investigators/detectives. Came to door and want a statement later.
Rowdy
Posted By: Sandro Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 07:31 PM
Since we are on the subject....here is the "worst burglar ever". Funny stuff!
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=mim90zCi34Y
Posted By: Roger Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 08:18 PM
Sandro, some people are just not cut out for their chosen profession [Linked Image]

Roger
Posted By: Rewired Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/28/07 10:01 PM
Now that was funny!

A.D
Posted By: e57 Re: Just can't have nice things! - 01/29/07 09:58 AM
Rowdy that really sucks that you had to go through that....

Sandro, thats great! And a perfect example of why you alway have 3 points of contact with a proper sized ladder.... Try this edited version of it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psamNnim_I0&watch_response


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 01-29-2007).]
© ECN Electrical Forums