Just going to warn a few people about this, and figured I should warn everyone else.

RSA Lighting

These things, in particular the square trimmed ones are a nightmare to install. And considering thier cost, should install themselves - but don't.... It should be noted that ALL of these "trim-less" type fixures will have simular problems -especially square or rectangluar.

• The square trim - even slightly out of square will stick out like a sore thumb - calling into question all placements. This is exasparated by below.
• Flimsy hanger bars and brackets normally used on cheaper fixtures are used, resulting in additional support straight lines. Butterfly brackets are poorly designed as well, and not readily modified for wood or metal framing.
• The fixture J-box comes pre-over-packed. As it already has ALL of the thermal, transformer, and line side conductors extra long inside the box, there is barely any room for the feed in and out conductors. See below again:
• The junction box is not reachable from inside the fixture, and thus not accessible in the real world sense. Sure you can reach, and maybe open it, but as it is 10-14" (NonIC/IC) inside the fixture - unless you have made the feed in and out conductors that long the splices will not be accessible or for that matter visable. Also note above, the thing is already over packed and there will be little chance of re-packing it after install.
• The trim amounts to a multi-trade organization of trades by the GC after framing, of rockers and and painters to float out its required level 5 finish of 3/16" mud or the cieling will look like crap, and the trim must remain clear, then the trims meust be painted to match in an extremely thin coat or the trim wont fit. Not to mention the extra time the electrician takes in handling everyone of the trims 2-3 times, pointing out deficient work at each opening, and the extra time to install and stabilize each one. Thats four coordinated trades to install correctly!
• On top of being $150-$250 a fixture matieral cost, if you add up every other cost they amount to ~$300 EACH! (Not including branch wire)

$300 each is conservitive! BTW

And the j-box is closed by two 1/4" hex head screws that are not easily reached while the fixure is hung.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 11-05-2006).]

I hope you sent a similar letter to the manufacturer letting them know what you think about their product and the bad publicity it's getting being posted on an electricians forum.

I put over 500 of the "QCT901 – 12V MR16 – 71W Max." fixtures in a house and yes they are a BIG pain in the butt to install.

Cow, these fixtures are made by Cooper who own about two-three dozen other lighting and electrical brands (Including Halo a well made fixture for the price, and easy install) - They knew when the designed it. (If these had Halo's hanger bars, and Iris's J-box - I would promote them myself.)It would be like Ford saying they didn't know what the designers at SAAB, Volvo, Ferrari, Jaguar, Mazda, Austin Martin, and Lincoln were doing.... I'm sure they know very well that Mercury's have a few design flaws too - but don't care. Cooper, I am sure does not care what we think about installing them, so long as they can sell them to designers and architechs for looks alone.

BTW I did come up with an interesting way of hanging them. By screwing a piece of channel to the cieling so the edge was the same distance of CL to edge of the fixture opening. That way you could balance the fixture up there butted against the channel, and install the extra support needed to stabilize it. Tek screw through each hanger bar it came with and one or two more to lock it so it doesn't float around on them flimsy things. And make sure your in-outs are twisted and have firm connection - believe me, you never want to go into these after rock. Especially the IC version. You'll need mirrors, lights, picks and hooks to do it. Like some sort of keyhole surgeon.