I've been asked to install a specialized load center that has low resistance. The owner feels this will improve his audio experience for his home theater. Currently he has a subpanel from which the circuits for the theater/audio is run. This new panel will replace it.
From what I can tell it is a 120V system. It looks like the hot and neutral go into the main breaker and then the hot goes to the buss bar and the neutral(black) goes to the neutral bar. I'd like to find some info about this panel before I install it.
Here are a couple of pics I took of it. The owner says it is around 6k.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=266357410&context=set-72157594301299815&size=l http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=266357158&context=set-72157594301299815&size=l

Thanks,
Byron

Audio guys are funny creatures.May all your grounds have low resistance.And have a good night.

Definitely looks like a European design, and appears to be intended for use on a 240V system, not 120/240 as we use here in the states. Check the ratings on the main breaker.

Probably gold plated by one of the audiophool "tweaker" companies, to be sold to folks with more money than brains.

Before installing it, I would definitely run it past the AHJ to see what he says about installing it on a 120V system. He may not be too happy about the switched neutral, either.

Are you planning to feed this with oxygen-free liquid nitrogen-cooled superconducting romex? And call the PoCo for a platinum-wound pole transformer?

Seriously, if you do install it, make sure the customer understands you make no claim that this install will have any effect on anything but his wallet. Working for the "golden ear" crowd can be an exercise in frustration, as they moan and complain about problems that they claim to hear, and treat you like an idiot because you (and your best instruments) can't find anything wrong.



[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 10-10-2006).]

That's definitely some european creation. Here's a closer look at that main breaker (there's actually (2) links that were posted).
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=266357410&context=set-72157594301299815&size=l

230/ 400 volt single pole breakers?

Shockme that is a two pole breaker.

bwise121 I think your customer is an idiot.

That said I would have no problem installing whatever 'High end' gear he can find as long as it's safe.

The NEC allows a switched grounded conductor as long as it is switched with the ungrounded conductors.

They look like the standard Siemens control circuit breakers with gold plated screws. I'm not sure about the selection of 32 Amp breakers. Does that mean that the wiring to the outlets have to be 10 AWG?

Data sheets: http://www.sea.siemens.com/contrlbu/upld/files/p768.pdf http://www.sea.siemens.com/contrlbu/upld/files/p772-773.pdf


I believe the main 2 pole breaker is a GFCI. I think that may cause issues if "Golden Ears" connects to a cable box or satelite audio source.

Merlin Gerin catalog
.......... see pages 10 & 11

http://sdk.snb.leon.se/CD%20Externa...arch=%22NS100N%20%22Merlin%20Gerin%22%22

Larry C

edit for wire question.

[This message has been edited by LarryC (edited 10-10-2006).]

That load center is definitely European and "custom" built.

The main breaker is a Merlin Gerin from Schneider Electric the same company that owns Square D. The branch breakers are from Siemens. Very few of those style breakers are UL listed for branch circuit protection (most but not all are only supplementary protectors).

The NEC has no problem with switched neutrals on breakers.

I'm gonna have to agree with iwire, your customer is an idiot. Ask your local inspection dept what they think.

Ladies and Gentlemen: we're in the wrong business...

Sure is nice looking though!!

1. I see a CE mark but no UL. It's unlikely that they are approved for use in the U.S.

2. 32 amps is going to be a problem. The AHJ isn't going to go for 32 amp breakers protecting 20 amp receptacles. And you're probably going to need 8 gauge wire, because #10 is explicitly limited to 30 amps.

3. Your customer is an idiot.

4. Make sure that your customer knows that audiophile grade equipment requires audiophile grade installation, which goes for $500/hr.

Let's see here, you have to use emt, steel fittings, MTW wire, solder all lugs,line your clamps with cushioning foam, use only fed. spec grade hospital receptacles, we already know what kind of recep. covers to use, pull a braided ground wire, #2 outha do ok, brass screws everywhere, audio rated gloves, spray your bender with teflon before each bend, etc., etc...$ 500 per hour seems like a pretty good deal...

The manufacturer of this monstrosity is based in Hong Kong:
http://www.isocleanpower.com/

Here's a place selling them for just under 4 grand:
http://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/id171.htm

I love the recommendations about using "audiophile grade" cable to the receptacles (what article in the NEC covers this stuff?), or getting the utility to provide a separate service to the panel...

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 10-10-2006).]

You all have been very helpful. The fact it isn't UL approved and it has 32Amp breakers translates into me not touching it. What is sad is he can't return this unit!

Many thanks,
Byron

I will say it is something to look at, even if your customer got ripped off for almost 4 grand.. Gold plating and " polished" siemens breakers.. Hmmm, hang it on the wall and build a nice picture frame to fit, It is truely a work of art and costs only a fraction of a true masterpiece!

A.D

Not sure if panel need to be listed, but I wouldn't install it either. And I would really have a hard time holding back the laughter....

Maybe it would improve his audio experience if he put it on a shelf or something in his listening room. That way he still can show it off to his fellow audiophools, and he will still have the peace of mind that comes with knowing he's spent a bunch of $ on something that's completely useless,
Regardless, don't hook it up to any electricity.

It does not look like the panel has a dead front. Not approved for use in the US. I also agree any idiot that buys this stuff is really nuts.

Apart from the gold plating on the fasteners, this does not appear much different from almost any Euro (IEC) control panel.

Indeed, it is fairly common for Euro enclosures to be made of clear plastic, with but a small hatch to access the toggles.

Not UL? Not always an issue. UL is better seen as a 'guide' than a 'god.' That said, if you are not comfortable with a piece of equipment, are not certain you understand how it operates, what you need to do, there is no shame in backing off.

I haven't declined a job since.... yesterday.

I would reccomend getting comfortable with this stuff, though. Open up a commercila door opener, a hot tub, or a pre-fab motor control center, and you will very likely be looking at some familiar stuff.

Oh- and as for the gold... Did you know the older style TV tuners had such plated contacts? Gold is a great conductor, and is quite corrosion resistant. While doing so would bring any UL listing into question, I think this is one "modification" I could live with.

With respect to the missing deadfront, I would guess that the 4 standoffs are probably for mounting a Lexan or equivalent cover once installation is finished.

I wonder how thick the buss that jumpers all of the breakers together is?

There is no NEC requirement that panels be listed.

They do have to be approved by the AHJ.

I doubt many AHJs will approve this panel simply for the fact of the 32 amp breakers can not serve the type of receptacles / equipment that the audiofool wants connected to it.

It is likely that one can obtain replacement breakers in 16 amp or perhaps 20 amp size. That just might make this thing useable in the U.S.

It looks like those bus bars are around 3/4" or 1" thick???

Apparently, the manufacturer only supplies 32A breakers for this panel.

Ordinary Siemens control panel breakers (of a more usable ampacity) would obviously fit, but without the gold plating and other magic mojo, they would be a hard sell to the crowd that would buy this kind of junk in the first place.

No problem, I have a magic mojo installation tool that will mojo the heck out of the new breakers.

The system will sound so good that they will be able to hear the color of the performers underwear.

I only lease my 'mojotivity' technology to a hand picked, select customer base. (Anyone who has the bucks)

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 10-11-2006).]

NJwirenuts' second post has a link that shows brown carpet also enhances the "listening experience".

I honestly cannot see how any of this gear can make the audio better that can't be a chieved with good installation practices, quality fittings & possibly some sheilding from noise sources such as motors.

As a commercial sound technician, I am ashamed at what some people think will make a sound system sound better. This is nuts. The owner can feel whatever he wants, but, the bottom line is that the audio going through the system is not going to be this good. Think about this. Recording studios don't use monster cables, when you need several thousand patch cords you buy a few rolls of wire and some connectors and set some people to soldering. When it comes to home theater stuff, as long as you have good components, decent wiring, and proper speaker positioning, just about anything will sound good. My system at home runs off of regurlar, 12 AWG stranded wire and 2 - 20 amp Square D Qo breakers. It wasn't terribly expensive, and it sounds amazing. I think that sometimes you can sell anything to anyone.

Umm, I have an AA in sound engineering, but I haven't heard the "low resistance on your AC supply" one before.

You might tell him he's better off with low NOISE on his AC. Smoother harmonics, less voltage fluctuation, etc, can have a bearing, but power supplies and conditioners that are BUILT IN to most quality audio equipment these days are very well built. BTW, that is what you usually are paying for when you buy top-end equipment - cleaner circuitry and a more advanced POWER SUPPLY for filtering and smoothing.

Avoid ballasted lighting like the plague.

Iso Grounds dont hurt on really sensitive equipment, but I have yet to "hear" a difference.

Everybody has a little theory...If he insists, I guess you should give him what he wants.

I think this is an opportunity for you to sell him the European wall recep's that will go with the increased ampacity OCPD's and then change all his plugs on the audio equipment and recomend a larger power stabilizer device which you could mark up - all this goes for $$$ you know plus your mark-up. Plus he needs a second service for all this stuff Plus all the additional hours and all the stuff would have to be imported etc etc I see a very lucrative job for you - anyone who spends 6k on a resi panel well ...... a fool and his money!!

I love the description they give on the United Home Audio web site: WAKE UP AND SMELL THE POWER!!

If they really want to spend the bucks, maybe they should go see if they can buy some new hearing.
The human ear is only so sensitive. To claim you can hear some of these......these "improvements" sounds like the story of the Emperors New Clothes to me.
None of them want to admit they can't hear the difference, indeed many that I've seen can't carry a tune in a very large bucket, and wouldn't notice a sour note if it was on their tongue.
What a pitiful lot. Too bad

That's a European panel with the front cover missing!

The wiring in and out of the breakers would not normally be exposed like that.

It's definitely not suitable for use in the US though, they're 230V 50Hz European spec components.

Also, has your customer noticed the thousands of miles of "dirty copper" between the power station and his home!?
Or the fact that the breakers in that panel are just fitted with nice gold plated screws, they're the same siemens breakers that handle the circuits for my washing machine

I wouldn't suggest installing it and certainly not with the backs of the breakers exposed like that.

It looks like a home-brew panel!

I second Zapped's advice, and add:

Do NOT ever use multiwire circuits!! They have, in my experience, caused more problems than they should.

The worst case I've run into so far was in a multi-million dollar mansion, with three-phase service, five circuits to the audio rack served with 5 #12's and ONE #10 neutral. And the client was wondering why he kept burning up power amps and had massive hum problems...