I am going on memory here so forgive me if I confuse the facts. I am posting to clear that part up.

I read on message boards that fishing regular tv signal wires, from reciever to screen, inside walls is not code compliant, or safe.

How much of this is fact, and how much is urban legand?

Depends on the type of wire you use. Here in Canada if it's "FT-4" rated (flame test) it's ok.

That is my question. Is the need for rated wire urban legand, or does anyone have links to documentation saying that fires have or could start due to use of improper wire?

"Is the need for rated wire urban legand"

The word urban legand simply means, no one bothered to look it up, so if someone told you it was an urban legand, he most likely din't know.

Try 820.49 Fire Resistance of CATV Cables
and 820.50

Remember, you need to consider, not only the electrical codes, but fire codes.

Thanks LK. What version of the code are you using? I cannot find those sections in the 2005

And 800.50 for communication type circuits.

2002 NEC

[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 08-27-2006).]

Anybody remember those threads and pictures about the fires started from high gain audio cables getting run inside walls? From about 3 years back I think.

Thanks Ron

Yes 2002 Book

Audio equipment, and wiring, keeps the fire trucks running, they can produce high levels of heat, a large percent of our building fires were audio related, everything from papers stored near, left on amps. to amps overheating and erupting in flames, my guess is there are more fires caused from audio equipment, then electrical systems in the home.

Oh, and don't forget how many cars go up in flames from amps that shake the neighborhood.

In the US according to the NEC the cables have to be listed as CM, CMX, CL2 or CL3 or any combination of each (dual listed). Listing has to be printed on the jacket.

I don't know of any thread relating to a fire started by "high gain audio cables", whatever that is. If someone finds it I would be happy to comment.

The low voltage and signal cable safety issue is related to what their composition will contribute to the spread of fire as well as the fire and smoke load itself should they be ignited by an external source. Heating of the cable due to excessive current is not a concern since if used according to code it would not be a factor.

-Hal

Audio equipment, and wiring, keeps the fire trucks running, they can produce high levels of heat, a large percent of our building fires were audio related, everything from papers stored near, left on amps. to amps overheating and erupting in flames, my guess is there are more fires caused from audio equipment, then electrical systems in the home.

Sure, I can see equipment overheating because of flammables blocking the ventilation and line voltage wiring being a cause of fires especially with power strips and overloaded receptacles. But to say "a large percent of our building fires were audio related" and "my guess is there are more fires caused from audio equipment, then electrical systems in the home" is really a stretch. Sounds like typical firemen who blame everything they can't pinpoint on an electrical problem. The stereo is burned up so it must be the cause.

-Hal

Often I get AV guys asking for a pipe that goes back to the reciever, and I just leave it at that...

Sometimes they'll run building wire and terminate it. And I think thats great, Component video, even fiber.... But often they are running all kinds of factory connectors through it, and never been fond of it. (HDMI, DVI, VGA, Firewire) Some of them ask for ridiculous conduit sizes, like 2"+. Anyway, I too am not fond of using these types of cable in the walls as premisis wiring. I dont think the insulation on them is rated for that use as com, or class 2 wiring, or listed for that use. Often they seem more decoritive than anything else. So I just give 'em a pipe, and lettum do whatever it is that they do. As Im sick of telling AV guys what they can and can not do, as they will continue to get away with murder until some inspector puts his foot down, if only he would look past the dazzling display.

I think that a major reason that the AV guys specify such large conduits is so that they can pull in pre-made cable assemblies with bulky connectors factory-installed on the ends.

I had one of those guys utterly amazed one time when he saw me actually SOLDERING a connector onto the end of a control cable I had pulled in. He actually stated that only the manufacturer has the ability to install those properly...

I am not surprised that newer folks in the trade (LV, A/V or electrician) believe the factory is the only one that can install a plug. We heard the same thing about plug caps on line cords (loss of U/L listing prevents a field installed plug).
They also have probably had problems with signal cables that had field installed ends. I know I would never try to make up a USB cable unless it was an emergency. Maybe I would have when my eyes were 30 years younger.

quote"I had one of those guys utterly amazed one time when he saw me actually SOLDERING a connector onto the end of a control cable I had pulled in. He actually stated that only the manufacturer has the ability to install those properly..."

I went to factory training for Heliax cable installation and termination and some other goodies that applied to antenna wiring. The Heliax terminations always involved soldering . Cool stuff to work on.

Way OT...

Soldering, crimping, or punching is not hard. (But, I've been doing it for 20 years. So I guess it's not that big of a deal to me.) Whenever possible, I'd rather terminate after pulling/fishing.

HDMI, DVI, VGA, USB, Firewire... I could go on... None of them are hard to terminate. Some are more challenging than others. (The worst connector I ever worked with was a Hirose for a wireless mic. I had to cram a SM resistor and a SM cap in this dink-ball connector. It's been in service for years with no problems.)

IMO, it really depends upon where the termination is taking place. Try terminating 40 XLR's on your back under a console desk. Takes a lot more time than a termination where you can actually work comfortably.

IMO, there's way too many people in the AV and audio fields that aren't qualified. But, that's probably the case in many industries.

Eric

Question is where did you find a HDMI and DVI connector that is field installable? How about bulk cable? I was thinking about if I had to do it and never came up with anything other than cable assemblies and connectors meant to be factory installed.

Thing is both HDMI and DVI (with its separate audio) have a distance limit. There are many converters out there that are cheap and will put the signal on a couple of CAT5's or fiber. Probably the better way to go.

-Hal

Pacific Custom Cable. Although, if you dig around, I'm sure you'll find other places.

Never bought bulk cable. Normally, one of the ends gets cut off, the cable is fished, and that end is re-terminated.

Fortuantly, I don't have to do that very often. At church, I deal mostly with audio cables. At work, we deal mostly with CAT-5/6.

Eric