May 19, 2006

BANGOR, Maine --Maine state police are investigating break-ins at Bangor-Hydro Co. electrical substations in which valuable copper was stolen.
Boston.com News Story


(edited to shorten Link)


[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 05-20-2006).]

Would anyone shead a tear if they did die doing this, that is vandalizing substations and stealing the copper?. I sure wouldn't. No doubt druggies looking for some more Oxy Contin or herion

It would be a sad site I think if that happened, ER should I say when it WILL happen...

A.D

Don't know if it's druggies - scrapping is a lot of work.

[bitter rant]Of course, some thieves (DBA "Scrappers) came into my yard while I was gone and stole my spare 2" RMC risers and a few lengths of EMT and RMC I had lying in the woodpile between jobs.

They also stole eight section of scaffolding and several 10' of allthread I'd scrounged from jobsites.

And going to the scrapyards isn't worth the trip - all I got were blank stares and "I dunno... We get a lot of stuff in here" answers... even though it's kind of obvious if you're hauling in scaffolding.

But going there reminds me of the payday loan stores - 1" thick bulletproof glass and cash pass-throughs.

I say let 'em cut it, preferably live, and let the PoCo find some crispy critters when they troubleshoot the call. [/bitter rant]

I often wonder why the scrap yards do not get charged with "receiving".
I have seen big spools of solid, clearly marked FPL, sitting in the copper bin.
They have full spools of THHN on a cart, for sale. I guess it is a cheap place to get your wire but you might actually be buying YOUR wire.

Exactly. Which is precisely the reason people shouldn't buy from scrap-yards.

It's like buying that slightly-used DeWalt kit from some joker of the street for $300 less than retail. Yeah, it's cheap for you, but it's gonna cost the original owner a fortune to replace it when they discover that joker stole it.

You buy from criminals and it encourages crime.

-John

Not to mention that if -- by some freak chance, such as working on the same project someday -- the original owner sees YOU with it, he'll think you were the one who stole it.

Not pretty.

Although I detest stealing of any sort I can make make more money buy working rather than busting my hump to pull a bunch of copper out of a sub-station. If these people put more time into working rather than stealing they would have a lot more money. Totally UNBELIVEABLE

The part I can't figure out is how they got 4 different places. I would think that it would take a long time to strip the copper out. People must have called to report a power outage, but the guys were gone by the time hydro got their?

[This message has been edited by adamb (edited 05-20-2006).]

I've driven by said substations many times. This a very rural area in Maine,at night 99.9% chance you will never see a cop or maybe a even another car. Logging truck is a different story . I'm thinking what they got was bonding wire, bare copper so not much work involved after the theft??. It was reported on the news that local scrap yards have been notified but my guess is boston or portland area will get it??

Let 'em fry is how I feel about it. If you're stupid enough to be poking around a powerstation looking to steal copper (for whatever the reason is) than you're just asking to be electrocuted. I wish I could somehow electrify my own tools to prevent them from being stolen.



Right on, brother. That's why when I see a $1,000 Hilti drill on a site like eBay for less than $100, I have to figure it's been stolen. And by buying the drill I'd be creating a market for more thievery. Just my opinion, but I know I've just opened a can of worms. Oh well.

Sometimes a bogus seller will advertise such a thing at that price, someone will bite, and the item is never shipped. Sometimes such a seller won't even have the item, but just stole pictures from another auction. This is an additional reason to avoid such deals.

What in the thunder are these guy thinking?
Imagine this: Two guys break into a substation. they saw a huge chunk of copper (a 500kV air cored line reactor) and climbed up to cut it *mother of all fireballs erupts*. Half a state went dark, Finally,two guy are "toasted" beyond recognition.

If the guy had perfect feedback, I'd say you missed some of the product detail and maybe a hell of a deal.

Oddly enough, I once met the mother of a guy who got fried stealing wire from a sub-station.
I was also present when two guys were exhumed from their "brick recycling" job site... it was just so much easier to take the bricks from the bottom of the wall!

I call it "Darwin in action."

The way to stop this nonsense is to require all scrap dealers to video record their transactions. The equipment is cheap.

Dopers would quickly modify their behavior for the cameras.

All that would be needed is a split screen video tape with goods, face, ID, and register event.

Honest scrappers wouldn't give a hoot. Illegals would never dare the process.

When I was a kid, one of my aunts told me about a guy in Cali (Colombia), who would make it a habit to climb utility poles in the city and steal the copper from the pole pigs - the ones that provide the drop to your house.

This was back when she was a youngin'

One night, he made a wrong move and ended with one of his arms half scorched and melted.

Rendered totally useless for life.

"If the guy had perfect feedback, I'd say you missed some of the product detail and maybe a hell of a deal."

I'll say this.... Just because someone has "perfect feedback", means only one of two things in regards to EBay...
1.) Has good buisiness sense, (as many THIEVES do) to maintain good standing with buyers of thier wares.
2.) Has registered under many, or new names to hide that fact he has shafted people in the past....
i.e. "perfect feedback", does not mean the person is not selling or fencing stolen goods!

Anyway, back on topic.....

While out at the scrap yard to find some steel for some welding practice I found this sign.

When I asked about it in the yard, the guy said if he knows it is PG&E wire, which is often marked, he turns them in, as the REWARD is far in excess of what he can get for the wire. All the scrappers know about that, and have to strip it all, and also not to bring in certain types of wire.

Also, take note that you can barely make out the transfer station in the backround of the picture....


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-21-2006).]

Ahh yes, another Ebay newbie - I forgot to add that the informed Ebayer knows to look for sellers with at least 2 years of solid positive feedbacks. Preferably over 100 feedbacks - then theres no need to be paranoid. Just like with any other merchant out there, you have to know their track record.

[This message has been edited by TwinCitySparky (edited 05-22-2006).]

After the 8/03 blackout here in detroit we had a guy who was stealing bus from a 4160 (Might have been 12,470 I forget) sub when the power came back on. When the tech (My friend) responded to the trip, they found a guy laying across the bus with a hacksaw, he was cooked.

Unfortunately, this practice is becoming commonplace all over the US. The utility where I'm presently employed was hit only a week or so ago. Theives cut a chain link fence and entered a 161 to 69 KV substation and cut many 4/0 copper cables used for grounding steel substation fixtures. A grounding transformer bond was also cut. Substations can be some of the most dangerous places on earth if you don't realize what you are messing with. It probably won't be too much longer before news of some toasted individuals will make the 10 o'clock news. What the survivors of these acts aren't aware of is that crimes of this sort will most likely be prosecuted under some of the new anti-terrorist laws and this "stunt" is going to wind up costing them a fair amount of time in a federal penetentiary. Personally, I'd hate to think that I was going to have to be "Bubba's girlfriend" for the next 15 years just for 20 pounds of scrap copper........

TwinCity, what I believe E57 is saying is that while someone with good feedback on Ebay will probably not stilt you, if he's selling a $1000 tool for $150 the tool is quite likely stolen. It would be quite easy for someone to steal dozens of power tools, then sell them on Ebay, with good communication and excellent shipping practices, thus getting perfect feedback.

-Will

Elviscat, My point exactly..... TwinCitySparky BTW, not in anyway new to most things.... (Except welding... Need pratice...) IMO Ebay is the new "fleamarket", no one is tracking goods there, unless it is Nazi or Confederate memoralbilia... And even then they have some sever trouble with that. And like any fleamarket, there is the good and bad. One fleamarket story I know of personally is that stolen goods do arrive in them and often. (I grew up in a rough nieghborhood...) Some people for years, and never got caught... The fact that you can now purchase with a credit card, and have those stolen goods delivered right to your door, makes no difference at all to the thief you bought them from. It must be noted that all goods have market value. And as mentioned before, when things are priced to move, it should be a trigger that maybe that person does not know the value of the item. Because maybe, it did not belong to him in the first place. I have seen things go for a song there, and the person who got them may think they are getting a fantastic deal. But what they don't realize is that many of those items could be easily sold elsewhere at the same low price, like a pawn shop, but they would have had to register it, with photo ID, and in some states, a finger print. EBay, lets people sell anything, no questions asked, and no middleman.... This is a very well known fact. It is also very well known, that if you burn one name out, just get another. Even reputable persons in the know do that.

Some call it a free market, I call it Fleamarket.

Won't even get into the many ID theft scams.

e57

There are crooks in every profession. Ebay has its share. Having said that, If you know how to find the good sellers, you’ll be fine. I resell security equipment on that site for a dealer that I have worked with for years. They regularly have outdated equipment that they need to “dump” to get the cost off the books. I buy the components for pennies on the dollar and resell them for not much more. I make an honest profit and everyone wins. I sometimes sell $500.00 control panels for $40.00 – All legally bought and paid for. Many other companies liquidate their wares in a similar fashion there. If you look in the stores area of the Ebay site, you will find several major brand retailers there, most cloaked as fancy stores.

Stay away from 1 year membership, 25 feedback guys!

And now - back to our program.


[This message has been edited by TwinCitySparky (edited 05-23-2006).]

I've heard the "companies have mountains of surplus, and need E-bay to get rid of it for pennies on the dollar" spiel before. Almost makes it sound like you're doing them a favor, sending them money!

The Reno area's biggest business is -no, not gambling- warehousing. For a variety of reasons, a very large part of what sells in California is warehoused, and staged here. If there were ever a place where companies would be "stuck" with tons of stuff they just couldn't dispose of, Reno would be the place.
Guess what? It just doesn't happen that way. Period.

We have a marketing system that is essentially free. This means stuff sells for what it's really worth... the prices are neither falsely inflated or artificially discounted. "The market" ensures that.


So I agree with those who are suspicious when an expensive tool, one that is usually company provided, becomes available through unusual channels, at a large discount. To just make up an example, you can be sure GM does NOT have a lot full of Cadillacs that they just HAVE to dispose of for $400!

A lot of companies do dump stuff for free or for pennies on the dollar. When IBM was imploding they were tossing scopes, meters and parts in the dumpster. I ended up with 2 Tektronics scopes, a couple Weston meters and a Dranitz that were simply "surplussed". I did a project for IBM/State Farm right after I retired where we were throwing Hewlett Packard printers and an assortment of terminals in "bulk ship" boxes, bound for the crusher. They told us we could give anyone one if they wanted it. I am always amazed what shows up in the dumpsters at my wife's job sites. That is where we got our kitchen cabinets (actually rescued before they made it outside).

Back on topic kinda...
If you work at a scrap yard, and some guy pulls up in with a van or truck with 300#'s of scrap copper wire. Thats one thing, but you could question it...
If some guy pushes up 4 shopping carts full of unopened rolls and 1/2 rolls of 12/3, and 3 1/2 rolls of 2/0. - that guy is a thief....

Likewise, if someone is selling 30 of of one item, and 20 of another. One could venture to question... He's either a liqidator, or a highjacker.... Fresh out of the truck they stole.... Or the freight yard. And if you think that doesn't happen think again....
But if someone is selling a handmade swiss gold and diamond antique watch that my mother-n-law used to have as just, "Gold watch", and my buddies fluke scopemeter as just "voltmeter", that guys a thief.... And probhably has years of excellent feedback from people who bought from him on pennies on the thousand.

They have a scrap dealer on TV here this evening telling TV 20 that he can't refuse to buy things he may think are stolen because he has been sued for accusing "an innocent man" of being a thief.
The story showed, what looked like me to be, brand new rolls of copper the size of your thumb. They do videotape the transaction but I didn't see the cops busting anyone.