What if all breakers would interchange with all appropriate panels? Wouldn't it be nice if you only had to stock one type of breaker instead of running around trying to find the one that fit correctly?
This would make our jobs much easier and more efficient. If most of the suppliers were to shut down, the remaining ones could consolidate their products and simplify production. They could still sell brand x breakers, but they would all fit in any new panel. Sure would make everyone's life easier.

Without multiple suppliers, there would be monopoly. Or, the government could own the means of production, then we would have socialism. Pick your poison. Democracy is never efficient, economical or fair, but it is the only free society.

Seems to me that the definition of socialism is the WORKERS owning the means of production.

Since most of the folks in government never did an honest day's work in their lives, that kind of leaves them out, no?

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 05-04-2006).]

I think festus was looking to describe a universal perfected design interchangable with all brands, the way all makes of 6/32 screw are supposed to be the same. And likewise all brands of switches and outlets fit into a single gang box.

Not the draconian stylings of a socialist state brand....

OCPDs of the world unite!



Seriously, it would be pretty difficult to make just ONE breaker style to fit all panels. Many of them are *similar*, but the Square D "QO", the FPE "Stab-Lok", and the Cutler Hammer CH series are all pretty unique as far as the bus connections go. Hard to imagine a single connection that would fit them all...

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 05-04-2006).]

Are you and your AHJ OK with replacements that are Classified?


Cutler-Hammer Has Something for You

A .pdf

An American version of the DIN Rial!

With a norm about mechanical considerations and form factor it would be very possible to have any number of manufactures providing compatible breakers, panels, disconect cases, etc., etc., etc.

Joe.-

Oh Scott, that is beautiful! It's about time, and you know all the rest will follow, short of SqD Q style.... Because otherwise they are all the same basic design.

Interesting you say it would be great if everything was standardised and then you say "American version"
What's wrong with using the same DIN rail the rest of the world uses??

btw, you also need to standardise on height of terminals, width of breaker, and a few other things otherwise there will still be problems with mixing brands.

Quite true Briselec,
The DIN standard is made for breakers and other types of equipment.
I've tried to twist the arm of ECN Member Kiwi for some pics of the switchboard panels they build.
Alas none have turned up here.
Pan units and the like are made to carry DIN Rail Circuit Breakers and once tightened to the Pan unit are locked into position.
Just wait for my Fire Safety Inspection Kiwi, it won't be pretty!.
You'd better have cream cakes for smoko.

"Interesting you say it would be great if everything was standardised and then you say "American version"
What's wrong with using the same DIN rail the rest of the world uses?"

I think what was meant was "an American listing for DIN" not necessarily a US specific version

Yes, EU breakers, RCD devices etc. do all fit in the DIN rail ok, but that does not necessarily make them 'interchangeable'. I bought an ABB split consumer unit C/W some prefitted breakers and spare spaces at the local brico- [ pics on the way to another thread; see Wiring Horrors, Violation Forum]. The brico now only stocked LeGrande stuff, so I bought Legrande breakers for the extras I required. I also junked some of the ABB units, as they were cartridge fused, in favor of LeGrande units.
The actual internal heights at the busses varied by about 3/16", making the bus connections across the hots and neutrals a nightmare- the Legrande bus copper 'legs' I bought were too short for the ABB units. Luckily, the brico still had some spare ABB bus bars in stock to resolve the problem & they fitted the LeGrande units ok for the spans. Also, very slight variations in DIN rail attachment clip positions between makers, viz the panel apertures, made it impossible to get a neat alignment- yes, they all fitted but not absolutely parallel as I would have liked.

Alan

Yep, the DIN rail is the norm in modern British panels, but there are still compatibility issues, even between different models of the same brand.

If you don't match up the breakers and the main switch (or RCD) for example, you can find that although all the units fit the rail perfectly, the heights of the terminals don't always align, so you can fit them to the busbar.

Hey NJwirenut, I am an employee of the federal government working at a VA Hospital here in Denver and I bust my but every day for our Vets.

Having visited a relative in France, and ending up fault finding a dodgy lighting circuit which was tripping the RCD, I was impressed with their double pole MCBs, which seemed to be the norm.
Makes fault finding so more easier than with the UK single pole ones !
What do other countries use?

Which would put you squarely in the category of "worker" as opposed to "in government". They might be your employer, but you aren't making policy, right?

My comment was more directed at the elected and appointed officials who eat from the public trough while contributing nothing to the society at large. Like the people who "support the troops" by cutting the VA budget, for instance....