For me, the "perfect panel would have a few improvements made to the door design.
I ought to be able to set the cover in place- so the weight is borne by the panel- and the screw holes would line up.
The mounting screws should be captive, so they don't get lost.
The cover should be lightweight. Plastic and aluminum come to mind.
The cover should have real handles on it, so I don't risk cutting my fingers on sharp edges.

The neutral buss ought not be buried under all the hot wires, and they neutrals ought not be "stacked". Indeed, you ought to be able to tie down the neutrals in a manner that makes clear just which 'hot' wire the neutral is associated with.

And don't forget the KO's should come out easier.....maybe they could switch dies more often..

Although the front doors came a long way from the old SQ D that had them twist kinda hook things, that always wieghed 100lbs and caught every wire when you installed them..

Dnk...

[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 03-14-2006).]

I don't like all the ecntrics & concentrics. I don't need a 2 1/2" KO on a 100 amp panel. Even the 200 panels I wish it did not have the 2 1/2" KO. Or even all the 1" KO on the load centers. I wish the KO were more in rows and 1/2". I can make em bigger. Or just an empty tub on a load center so I can do it my own way.

How about a ground screw hole that has more then 2 threads. Maybe a ground stud presed and welded in.

Like renosteinke said about the cover setting in place (Siemens tried this but could do better). Also what he said about the nutral screws by each breaker (like the older siemens).

Tom

Lets see.. KO's... well I would like to see lots on a panel but I would like a few more 1/2 - 3/4 concentric ones...
A full length neutral bar would be nice too, and while you are at it, put in a full length ground bar as well, you know so you don't have to do a lot of digging through other wires if you want to add or remove circuits at a later date.. And what the heck, might as well make the tub a bit deeper and wider... A little more working room is always nice...

A.D

I would rather they did away with KOs all together. I'd rather punch my own just like commercial grade tubs. And have EGC bars at the top and bottom of the enclosure and neutral bus all the way down on both sides. All tubs should be galvanized, not painted so there's no paint to scratch either accidently or on purpose when you're installing an additional ground lug. Doors/covers should be non-metallic to eliminate weight, corrosion and conductivity.
Just my opinion.

Sorry guys, wasn't clear, did I say I was having a bad day?????

The KO's I meant were the knock outs for the breakers..sometimes the dies don't cut enough and you end up bending the panel front trying to remove them...

Dnk...

Reno:
Sharp edges on front panel (door)??? About 4 months ago, pulled cover for insp; went to write a note on permit card; noticed blood. Did the razor cut thing to four fingers of right hand. Not going to knock the 'brand'.

Galv tubs, no ko's get my vote.

One mfg has a small 'tab' at the top of the cover to hold it in place; works OK, not great.

Nothing like the old industrial covers with the 'foot on the bottom of the cover to hold the weight, and the 1/4x20 hardware.

A real horror was/is the covers with the 'fixed' latch things where you turn the outer washer to align the latches & then tighten the bolts. Great idea IF it would work!

John

Ok.... Its a dream panel, and not cheap....

• Dual Neutral, and installed ground bars (Ground top and bottom, neutral on each side)
• Have removable tops and bottoms. 1 set with KO's (installed) for cable type instalations, and another set temp mounted to the inside of the panel with no KO's for when you need to make your own to either an existing patern, or any other patern you want.
• Be truely "Invertable", not turn the whole panel upside down and have the door swing change, and have phase A and B reverse (Murray - FYI I hate that!)
• Edges that adjust for for changes in wall finish, and for up to 1 1/2" like a big goof ring...
• Has a flat door that has an 1/16th" tolorance trick cabinet door that blends right into the wall.
• Intumescent inserts available for 2 hour rating!
• Has its own required illumination built in for use when cover is on or off.
• All breakers have trip indicator LED and ammeter display during operation.
• All breakers 22k AIC rated, current limiting to 5k depending on setting.
• All breakers are AF/GF/regular, depending on setting.
• All breakers are dual rated 15 to 50a, single or multi-pole depending on setting and installed.
• All breakers have astonomical timeclock, motion interface, and dry contact control.
• Has a modem that I can use to troubleshoot, and reset breakers from home.
• Has at least one year warrantee, and a local service Rep to program and install the darn thing. (So long as I can mark up the service calls, warrantee or not.)

I'd really like a panel that will finish itself so I can watch & take a break (it's been a long day).

Dave

And in addition to the longer grd and neut buses how about more large holes in them as well for #6 and #4s instead of having to drive to the supply house when you realize you need a ten dollar "add a lug".

"All breakers have astonomical timeclock"

hey e57 was that an astromomical time clock or a gastronomical time clock???

or a gastrointestinal time clock???

astronomical - the other two you mentioned are pre-set for 8AM DLST as a convienient pre-break-break to consult the to-do list, and general calander dates of critical path items, write change orders etc., if you really need to know?.

ETC's lighting panels have the astromonical clock in them...

I like the knockout idea...nothing worse than trying to knock out one size and the next size up breaks away too, so my vote is for no KO's

Something that I've only seen once is an FPE panel that had a KO for a duplex receptacle right on the can...thought that was a good idea.

Although I favour Siemens, the one thing I don't like is the buss bar sticking up....too easy for a bare ground to flip around and hit....I think FPE buss bar is good at preventing that. Maybe some plastic knock-out things over the buss bar that can be easily removed when installing breakers.

How about some real space to make a proper label job without resorting to minature script. I can barely fit in "upstairs lights". Have to spell it "lites" to fit.

Not sure what panels you guys use but Siemens incorporates a bunch of the things you are looking for already.

Knockouts for breakers come out easy. Tools not even required.
Neutral bar terminals accept up to # 4 in all holes.
There are tabs in the top screw holes to line them up and help bear the weight of the cover.
The label spaces are the largest of any panel I have seen.
There are plenty of ko's. Sorry Fred but having to make all your own would be a HUGE timewaster.

I have a love/hate relationship with knockouts. When I need them I love them, when I have to cut a 2" hole through a bunch of them I hate them.

Dave

Perfect Panel ? Lets put a twist on this -
The perfect panel is one where the electrician that installed and trimmed it out actually gave a dam about what he/she was doing! Too many times I have opened panels only to find a rats nest of wire stuffed back into the panel. Seems a lot of folks are so worried about time/speed they don't take the necessary time to cut in a panel correctly! I hate finding wires that have not been separated and are still twisted together,multipule wires in the ground/neutral lugs, and wires that are not formed in a professional manner. It becomes a real PITA to add/remove anything from these panels. I am not going to say which side of the trade I feel is worse( resi. vs commercial) as I have found it on both sides.
The funny part is I have never found an electrician that will own up to doing this. Everyone says I won't do that! I can say with total honesty that I do not tie in panels this way. I will take the time to separate the hots from the neutrals from the grounds. Tie in the neutrals first ,then the grounds, then the hots.All in a neatly formed fashion one conductor per lug opening!
I guess this is one of my pet peeves!

[This message has been edited by luckyshadow (edited 03-15-2006).]

As far as many current British panels go, I'd like to see an end to the thin, cheap, flimsy plastic cases that have become the hallmark of some brands. (Metal panels are quite rare here for residential.)

On the sharp edges issue, I've noticed that becoming a problem on normal switch/outlet boxes here in recent years. In the old days, the manufacturers seemed to finish them off properly, deburring the edges before sending them out. Nowadays, the boxes seem to arrive with very sharp edges and burrs, just ready to cut into your fingers.

Electricmanscott said,"Sorry Fred but having to make all your own would be a HUGE timewaster."
I have to disagree. I've had a lot of my life wasted on knockouts that didn't come out easily, came out too easily, interferred with where I needed a 1-1/4" or 2" hole and soforth. The spacing of 1/2" knockouts on factory panels isn't handy when using standard cable connectors either. They are usually too close together. Using my Maxis Marksman and a Greenlee Quick Draw I can prep a panel exactly how I want it in less than an hour and avoid frustration.

All I really think about in a panel (Switchboard) is that there is plenty of room inside it for getting your hands in there.
And plenty of space for future expansion, it's amazing how many places you see over here where the Electrician that wired a place only allowed enough room for the circuits that "he" installed and turns down any further work on the installation after that.

I've seen some panels with large bare lugs sticking out the bottom. Sometimes I tape over these. But there should be a plastic cover provided for safety reasons.
I just installed a SquareD panel and it had attachment points for nylon TyRaps so you can secure your bundle of wires or even hold down the big cables so they don't spring out all over the blace like a busted gut. This is a good innovation.
My biggest point is that the covers should be secured with studs instead of screws. That way, the studs will support the weight of the cover until you get the nuts on instead of trying to hold the heavy cover in place while using your second hand to line up the screw and your third hand to manipulate the screwdriver/gun. Siemans has the worst panels. They use those obsolete slotted screws. Also they use about six quick nuts. You get five of them started and then you hear a clunk as the last falls out of its hole and into the innards of the panel so you have to start all over.
~Peter

The 'Perfect Panel' has a final sticker on it.

Turn a couple of the cover screws around and thread them into the panel from the inside out. You now have studs for the cover to mount on. Use washers & hexnuts or wingnuts to hold it on.

And to add to luckey's post
when you find a stacked neutral bar
that some idot has used up all the top holes first
and you have to reach under to add a circut
and the biggest one of all that they labeled the panel
like 2nd fl nw bedroom
NOT Billy's room

who the hell is billy lmao

One feature that I really like and also hope that it becomes standard in the industry is Cutler Hammer's door in door feature. The cover has the usual door that gives you access to the breaker handles and the cover is also hinged so that you can access the inside of the enclosure without removing the cover. A real plus considering how heavy the cover can be on a large panelboard.

Tom,
This is an option on most company's panelboards, you only have to pay the extra money to have it. It's common in installations that get a lot of wiring changes.
mike