After the closure of the "neverending story" thread, and several others in the past, I really think that we need a CLEAR definition of exactly WHAT constitutes the dreaded "political content" for the purposes of this site.

From what I am able to figure out, it seems to be limited to anything that pokes fun at Republicans, G.W. Bush, conservatives, or anything else on the right side of the spectrum. I am left having to believe that there is some kind of ideological bias at work here because of the threads/comments that get closed, as opposed to those that are allowed to remain.

For example, many disparaging comments (some deserved, many not) get made about "enviro-wackos" or "greenies", and these are allowed to stay up. Same goes for threads (completely unrelated to ANYTHING electrical) dedicated to "supporting" or "thanking" current/former military personnel for their service.

Even the US flag waving in the upper left corner of every forum page is inherently a POLITICAL STATEMENT.

If there is a ban on political comments based on which side of the aisle you happen to agree with, that's fine, but let's have a clear, unambiguous statement SAYING SO. If not, then I would hope to see the ban enforced even-handedly.

I like this page and I think we should follow my mom's wisdom and never discuss religion or politics with friends as it will most likely strike up a disagreement. Let's keep it what it was designed for. I did love that thread though it was a hoot. Oh darn dropped my bagle out of my clip board.

I agree. If the webmasters want a "politics-free-zone" here, that's probably the safest way to go as far as avoiding arguments, etc.

I was just questioning exactly how the decision about what is "political" gets made, because (intentional or not), it seems to have a definite ideological component to it...

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 02-15-2006).]

I think maybe its not so much an idealogical content thing as the inherent inability of some people to limit themselves as to how far they will go. Then it becomes a rude thing. Kinda like repositioning the eyes to get a better look at some womens features if you know what I mean.

Njwirenut, I think most here have a pretty good idea of what is provocative or insulting (even if subliminal) as far as political issues are concerned.

As far as being one sided for Republicans, poking fun at Democrats or Independents is off limits as well, posts and threads crossing this line have also been removed in the past.

Union verses Nonunion, risqué, religion, and vulgar type post and threads will also be shut down and or removed.

FYI, this is not only for American politics, political posts and threads dealing with overseas members and their political situations in their own countries have been squelched also.

As far as thanking the military past and present here or abroad, I know that here in the USA, both Republicans and Democrats have been in office when we have lost soldiers by their leaders commands, so I don't think that is unilateral or IMO even political by any stretch of the imagination.


More correctly, that is a Patriotic Statement from where this site is based.

I think Mike is right.



Roger

NJwirenut,

I don't know of any clear definition of "Political Content" but I do feel that we try to be fair and do the best we can here.

When a thread comes up "supporting" or "thanking" current/former military personnel for their service I follow it very carefully. In my opinion, a simple statement of support or Thank You to the people who fight and risk their lives on behalf of our Country does not make a Political Statement and should not offend anyone.

If you, or anyone else feels some comments are out of place here feel free to email myself or one of the Moderators about it. Be specific, and timely about it.

Webmaster,
I wondered why, instead of re-directing the goof-ball nature of the thread...as was done when it seemed the nosense was going blue....
...you just ended it....

I don't want to debate your decision, I was simply curious.

togul,

Let me first say that I do feel bad for Marc, because it was his thread and I do apologize to him for the closing of it, but it was going places it shouldn't be and I felt it was best to end it.

When a thread starts to go south (which I define as likely to happen) redirection is a good choice, but when comments considered objectionable or out of bounds have already been made it is often too late to do that.

If something is caught right away a comment can often be edited out and explanation and/or caution added so that people know what's going on. If it's not caught right away comments have been made to comments and sometimes many posts and different people are involved. Rather than mass-editing (which leaves everyone wondering about something) closing is easier.

As I see it, leaving a thread open with objectionable content in it means that more (similar or opposing) comments must be accepted too, and then we are in a discussion that we are trying to avoid.

Additionally, anything left standing will likely be brought up by someone as a complaint at some point.

On a personal note: To be totally honest here, I'm not always 100% sure that what I do is the best possible action, but I try very hard to be unbiased, and I do believe I have the best interests of the Forum as a whole at heart.

Bill

Bill you run a great site, please do not second guess yourself.


Bob

I concur with Iwire........

Dnk...

The problem with liberals is.... nevermind, lol.

Bill:

This is a great site for the electrical trade! I have to agree with Bob & Dnk, you run a great ship, and it's a pleasure to be here.

Politics?? find a blog!

John

Bill, I agree with Bob too.

Roger

I agree too. Bill has done a great job of keeping this site on track, and the result has been the site's success.

As for the poking at Bush, etc, one must realize that there are more comments and edits regarding him, because he's the guy that's presently in office.

It's just that simple.




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 02-15-2006).]

10-4, religion and politics are the fastest way to turn a good relationship sour.

Does that make the Clintons fair game?

Bill
Keep it up, I can't tell you much I've learned on this site. If I want to discuss Politics their are millions of other sites but from I seen their is only one ECN. The wealth of knowledge on here is great.

Thanks so much

Jon

"As for the poking at Bush, etc, one must realize that there will be more comments and edits regarding him, because he's the guy that's presently in office."

So former administations are OK?

Clinton
Bush
Reagan
Carter
Ford
Nixon....

Adams('s), Hayes, Jackson?

Once thier term is over it is OK?

Well, it would seem to me that if you have any doubts, bounce it off of 2 other webmasters/moderators to see what they think. If that doesn't work, Sandra Day O'Conner should be well rested from her Super Bowl coin toss and might be willing to toss one for us. If it lands on edge, just use your particle beam annihilator to ...

Joe

Mark, of course whoever is in office at the time will get more press than whoever isn't.

An inflammatory post about Rutherford Hayes' politics would be edited as fast as any of them. The bottom line is Politics are out.

We can't solve the World's problems here, but maybe we can keep some people from getting electrocuted.

The bottom line is to forget about politics completely. Trust the moderators, they do the best they can, considering they are babysitting a bunch of blue-collar low-lifes who aren't intelligent enough to make an HONEST living in the corporate world.

Look, I have my own political ideas...and a multitude of places in which to indulge them. I do not consider ECN one of them!
Even among like-minded friends, political discussions become tedious FAST. Now, some folks just can't have a bowl of cornflakes without spinning off on a political tangent- I truly pity these folks.....mainly because so many of them consider themselves to be 'clever.'

So maybe it is necessary to have a heavy hand....unless we all act like more mature adults, and NOT let some yahoo's silly remark draw us all off on a tangent.

Now, one politician who is always welcome here is Lech Walensa....but only since he's an electrician!

Now, one politician who is always welcome here is Lech Walensa....but only since he's an electrician!

Not too long ago, a certain US official took alot of heat after telling another official to perform an action after he had been called a crook. In a debate sometime after this, he mentioned that he held an electrician card for 6(?) years in one state. I hadn't realized this and said, "So that's how he learned to talk like that!"
Joe

Webmaster,

thank you for the courteous response,

I understand your position and wish to commend both you and your moderators for maintaining the mostly civil tone of this forum..
.which for me is not without its difficulties.

but, the way Marcs thread ended just seemed weird....

Thank you again for running this forum and attracting the enormous talent pool that resides here.

I now know better.!


Tom

I usually assume that the thread will turn into a rant whenever it contains a phrase like "...and this will never change until so-and-so changes their position on this-and-that".
So the 'so-and-so' supporters and the 'so-and-so' bashers all come out of the woodword; and we never get closure on the electrical issue that was SUPPOSED to be the topic of the thread.
If I remember my history class correctly (I daydreamed through a lot of them), someone said "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". We all have opinions, but deriding one that you disagree with isn't the way to address it...and certainly not on the electrical forum.
Let's keep the electrical issues paramount and the political issues absent please.

First, to everyone from the Administrator, Moderators, and everyone else who posts in ECN, I would like to say a big thankyou. I've picked up lots of information from everyone here, and this way of networking with one another in a common forum is great!

The Never Ending Story was a lot of fun....it was something that I looked forward to reading each evening. Personally, there wasn't a thing in there that I found to be offensive.

That being said, if there is such a concern over political content, why is the thread in its entirety with the political content still there for people to read?

So anybody want to go hunting?

Sixer, it's still there because it was closed when it was closed.

Roger

Bill - Keep up the great work! This is a highly successful site due to sticking to the rules and not being afraid to edit out. Too many of these forums are not watched over and they quickly fade. You can't please all the people all the time

Which is kind of why I made the decision to shut down the follow-up "Thanks" thread as well. It's not that anything posted in it was objectionable in itself, but I could see that unless everyone was very, very careful it could easily head that way.

I've seen threads on other boards where a heated topic is eventually closed, and a follow-up "Why was this closed?" thread soon degenerates into the same sort of posts as those which caused the original to be ended. It was not my intent to be heavy-handed or to imply that anything posted in that thread was wrong, just a precautionary measure to keep things that way.

....that we're color-blind.

Can you imagine getting your red phase and your green ground wires mixed up?

*hides from Bill*

Bill when you say "it was heading South"...well just what does that mean? That the south is bad??? I am offended!

Not really, just had to throw that in. In the spirit of political correctness, just about anything can offend someone weather the offense is real or imagined. It is a shame (not to make someone feel bad) that we live in this type of climate (not that climate is bad) and cannot act like adults ( not that there is anything wrong with those who are not now, nor chose not to be adults)....well you get my point! Not that anything is wrong if it is not really a point but it is a tappered end....oh stop me someone please....not that it is..........

that's too funny........

"Headed south" ... "bad?"

I thought we were not allowed to talk about unions

I've been away from the site for a little while and unfortuately missed the "Story" thread. I just read through much of it and loved it!
I have to say though, I totally agree with NJ.
That was NOT "political". It was humor.

Heck, in today's world, if you can't make fun of dubya, who can you make fun of?

The idea here in my mind is this is an electrical site and while humor is certainly allowed we are not going to take any chances with any controversial subjects.

Yes that means that some fun things end up being off limits.

We have to remember we are not just sitting in our living room having a private conversation with our friends.

When we post here it is like standing in the middle of unknown, diverse crowd and shouting out our personal opinions without regard for others.

As was so well stated by Walrus


I could not say it better myself also there is no reason you can not email each other directly if you feel you must talk politics, unions, religion etc with members of this forum.

Bob


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-19-2006).]

Bob, if you read that again I think you probably could say it a little better.