I wanted to know a little bit about prevailing wages.

I'm currently working at a state institution, Queens Children's Psychiatric in New York City. I've been with my contractor for about 4 months now, and for about the past 10 weeks, I've been at this job.

I am a helper, but by no means, a regular "gofer" or "hand me my tools" helper. I can keep up with the 7+year mechanics with conduit runs, circuit layouts, and the like at the job we are doing now.

But, my co-workers are getting $75/hr, which I hear is the prevailing wage for mechanics here in NY. By no means am I asking for $75/hr, but they do tell me that prevailing wages for a helper should be in the $35-$45/hr range.

I'm currently at $20/hr. I do love my job, I am thankful for my job, but if I deserve to get a higher wage for the fact that it's the law to get a certain amount since this is for the state, then I really need to get that.

Is it right for my contractor to be paying the other 4 mechanics prevailing wage but to continue to pay me my normal pay? Everyone I talked to said that he's keeping the extra money for himself, and is probably writing fake amounts for how much he's paying me. Can this happen?

I'm thinking on talking to my boss tomorrow morning, but what happens if he rejects my question, what can I do from there?

Here's what you do. Forget about talking to your boss. Call the Dormitory Authority State of NY. They are on Main street in Albany and they are the ones who run that job.

Ask to talk to the girl in charge of prevailing wage. Tell her where you work and what job. She will be more than happy to help you, especially if you are not being paid what your employer agreed with them to pay you.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 01-29-2006).]

DS - I work for a public agency in the Los Angeles area. On most of our projects, we require all contractors to pay prevailing wage rates to all their workers. In order to minimize the instances of 'cheating', we require the contractors to submit certified payroll records monthly, which are audited, and we have people occasionally visit with the workers on the jobsite to ensure everything is OK wage wise.

There are actually 2 different prevailing wafe rate determinations for our area, the federal and the state each have their own. Contractors have to comply with which ever one is higher. I don't know about NY, but checking with your state website might be an idea.

On our projects, the only workers who do not get the basic (journey level) prevailing wage rate are those who are enrolled in a state approved apprenticeship program. Contractors aren't allowed to have 'helpers' outside the apprenticeship programs available for that purpose. That sounds like it might apply in your case.

All that said, I don't know that the state or the feds ever come check on the wage rates paid on our projects (they could, I guess), it's pretty much up to us to enforce the issue with the contractors we award contracts to.

Good luck,

Radar

pretty much what has already been mentioned.
under Davis-Bacon.... the DOE requires outside contractor employees to periodically fill out a standard form explaining our experience, classification, and pay scale..

.. additionally, boilerplate contract language does not allow anyone .....who has NOT FINISHED an apprenticeship..... to work onsite, so any charges to the contract reflect work done by j-men.........!

I know this doesn't help you directly, but if your boss is charging the state for you at a j-man rate........he could be committing a Fraud......

make sure you have your stubs, and check your hours carefully......

Just remembered something I shouldda mentioned above. We also have an office of the Inspector General (IG) who can and will investigate cases of 'waste, fraud & abuse'. These are federal agents, and they generally are not ammused in the least by anyone 'cheating' on their prevailing wage rate obligation.

Radar


[This message has been edited by Radar (edited 01-29-2006).]

Radar,,..No......they are not the least bit amused,....

...Procurement had suspended $24,000 on a job I was working on....for hours and people charged to jobs I worked on alone..

.My "interview" was not a pleasant experience.... because, even though I didn't fill out the extras tickets, I was on them, and I needed to verify my hours and material.....and since it was a Federal facility, the FBI was there , observing......

DS, you just got fiddled by the fickle finger of fate.
Prevailing wage schedules apply only to those who are either journeymen, or actually enrolled apprenticed in a DOL recognised apprenticeship program.
Everyone else gets whatever their usual wage would be.

In short, your employer is a skunk. Get into a program, and find a reputable employer.

And for all you employers out there- this is one of those situations where "the law" is seen as unfair by the employee, and influences his opinion come election time....

Reno - This sort of thing that you're describing is not allowed here, so apparently different areas have different rules on the application of prevailing wages, and DS should check further.

Most of our contracts require the trades basic prevailing wage rate to be paid to all contractors workers except those enrolled in apprenticeships. A contractor cannot (read that 'is not supposed to') do as you describe, that's why we have certified payroll records submitted monthly.

Note: An attempt by a contractor to overstate his (labor) costs in order to reap additional revenue is committing fraud, which is actionable by the IG. So besides whatever contract action we may take (say, termination for default), this can also become a criminal issue.

Radar

Yup. There is a roofing contractor here who I believe was just indicted because he wasn't paying prevailing wage to some of his workers on a school job. Claims he "didn't know".

-Hal

If you are not licensed or a registered apprentice the you will be entitled to the full rate.

You get "full rate" only if you are called an "electrician" by the employer. If he calls you a helper, a driver, and assistant, whatever- you don't get full scale "electrician" pay.

Trust me, I've seen this game played by overly clever employers. And the various agencies, whom you would expect to rely upon, have absolutely no interest in the issue.

I worked for a fire alarm co they appealed the prevaling wage rate. The company said that it was speciality low voltage work and because there was to prevaling wage for that classification we were paid our normal rate of 5.50/HR.this was in the early 80's

That would be a damn shame to be working on a prevailing wage job and not get paid prevailing wages.

Here is a pdf regarding NY prevailing wages.
Scroll down to Electrician and see what pay scales they show.
http://wpp.labor.state.ny.us/wpp/viewPrevailingWageSchedule.do?county=87

steve

so, if i'm reading that right, and I'd like to think I am, a 1st yr electrical apprentice should be making $22.66/hr total package?
2nd yr-$27.01/ht total package?

what if the kid can't figure out how to twist wires together correctly? what if he doesn't learn a blessed thing? Just spends all his time hiding in the corner? (Hide and Seek for a Grand A Week)

To the original poster. I don't know whether you are union or not, but if you're making 20 an hour as a helper, I would not complain. Albeit, if this particular contractor is committing fraud, he should be busted and prosecuted. You'd better find out the explicit facts before you act. You're the one responsible for making your own living. I know a lot of skilled people who would relish a 20 dollar an hour job. If you act and find out you're wrong, well in reality, you could screw yourself pretty bad if this contractor is vindictive and has influence. All I'm saying is find out the facts and think about it before you go making a stink.

I can see why journeymen are not flocking down here to work. It would be hard to find a $20/hr job if you were the big boss.
I do think some young guys might like spending the winter here for the $10-15 they pay. It would certainly be a crash course apprenticeship. If you are halfway good you could be the crew chief in a week or two.
Anyone who shows up with a rusty pair of Kliens, a screwdriver and a mouthfull of wirenuts can be an electrician.

Sad but true.

I'm not complaining one bit about my pay right now. I'm very greatful for it. But if I'm supposed to get something else, and someone is pocketing the extra, I have to say something, who wouldn't?

I'm still getting my information down, I'm not acting yet.

I understand what you are saying BUT are you prepared to loose your job over it? Not saying it's right or fair but thats the way things work. Obviously he would not fire you right away but he could easily get rid of you in the future. He could also put the word out to other large contractors and make finding another decent job difficult. I'm not saying you should not fight for what you are suppose to get, just know the possable ramifications if you do.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to have where you work in your profile, at least while this thread is open.

DS-
You state you are a "Helper" ? On prevailing wage jobs there is no such position. In the electrical field you are one of three things , on prevailing wage projects. A Laborer , An Apprentice , Or a Journeyman Electrician. If your not enrolled in a recognized apprenticeship program you may be listed as a laborer. Check this out BEFORE raising heck with the boss. Take the time to check out ALL the facts, DO NOT go by hear say !!! This way if the boss is on the level you haven't made a fool of yourself and should the boss be "dealing dirty" you have all the needed information in which to hang him !
Keep us posted

I really can't be enrolled in any apprenticeship program since I'm not union, nor is my company. So, I guess private apprentices are called helpers.

I'm not raising hell at all. I've decided to keep my mouth shut, especially to gain more knowledge.

Thanks for the info from all of you.

I don't know about other states but in MA you cannot have "helpers", "laborers" or any other clasification unless they are legitimate subcontractors.

You are either an electrician or apprentice. And if clasified as an apprentice you must be registered by the company with the state and then the prevailing wage is a percentage of the electrician rate.

If you are not registered with the state then the company is required to pay the full rate whether you have a license or not.

I know of many companies the have got caught and had to pay 1st year apprentices the full electrician rate.

You do not need to union to registered as an apprentice. There are other apprenticeship schools other then the union. I know in Maryland,on prevailing wage projects, you can classify a person as a laborer, but they are restricted as to what job functions they can perform. NO hand tool use, No ladders. Brooms and shovels, move materials -OK You need to check into your local state as to what the rules are . There should be person who comes to the project to verify people etc They will answer ALL your questions. Ask them !
In this life time the only person you can count on to look out for you is ..... YOU !

In Connecticut, i am registered by a non-union company with the state. I am halfway through my apprentiship hours. I know i had a little trouble getting registered because the state requires a ratio of 1 journeyman to 1 apprentice up to 2 journeymen...after that(over 2 journeymen) you need a 2 to 1 ratio. So maybe this is one of the reasons your employer has not registered you yet??? I was cheated for 2000 hours of time(my whole first year in the field) live and learn I suppose. I would want to kill someone if they were cheating my out of $5/hr. good luck! and be smart about it!


[This message has been edited by Clydesdale (edited 02-01-2006).]

DSpanoudakis...
i just finished doing work at the Manhatten pyc. center (under the triboro bridge)
i'm a non-union contractor,all my men got j-men wages as they're not in an apprentice school.This gets ch'k by the state with a certified payroll.and yes...it's around $75/hr.
if he lists u as a laborer you can't be doing anything but humping material...
bill

Humping material? Far from it. I run and bend conduit all day, run circuits, read and layout blueprints, rough-in work, finish work, etc. That's the reason why I asked if it's fair since I just don't clean and move material.

Sounds like, since you are not a registered apprentice and doing electrical work on a prevailing wage project that you are entiltled to the full electrician rate.

It's the law.