I noticed that another recent thread was getting somewhat off topic so I decided to start a new thread dealing with that alternate topic, namely tool abuse.

personally I got taught very early to respect tools. Screwdrivers are screwdrivers, they are not designed or engineered to be chisels, dykes, generally, are meant to cut copper and other softer materials, they were not designed to cut or grab steel, doing so will damage the tool, even more expensive tools will wear out quicker if they are mistreated and used for things they're not intended for.

sometimes you will find that certain tools are usefull for other tasks that don't damage the tool. If the tool is worn out from normal use then I see no problem with using it for other things, if someone grabbed an old, bashed up, not useful for driving screws anymore screwdriver from my toolbox and used it as a chisel I would not have an issue with it (well, if they asked first and told me what they would be doing with it) if someone grabs my brand-new ten-in-one and starts hammering on something with it I'm not going to be very pleased.

I don't buy my own tools, my boss does, so I don't have a say in how he and others use them, but if my boss sees me cutting a bolt or screw with his new dykes or strippers he's not going to be happy, and I may find that tool coming out of my pay. I hate seeing my boss cutting a piece of MC with a pair of wire strippers because I know after a while I'm going to try and cut a piece of stranded with those strippers and those last couple strands *just*won't*cut* all the way.

now that I'm done ranting, what's your opinion on the whole matter ever have employees/coworkers/others beat your tools up? Anyone ever get yelled at for improperly using tools? Just make you mad when you see that guy cutting a piece of steel wire/nails/staples with their brand new Journeyman's and then wondering why they knick/get dull in only a few months?

P.S. if you ARE chiseling with an old screwdriver, you still MUST follow the same safety precautions as you would with a proper tool, ESPECIALLY EYE PROTECTION, I'll admit that I've done it and had chips of cement and rock and c*** fly in my eyes, it was STUPID and I'm lucky I never scratched hurt my eyes even a small scratch on the eyeball is not fun, is the one minute it takes to put on safety glasses worth wearing an eye patch for a couple weeks? or for the rest of your life?

Myfeeling is: tools are designed for specific tasks, and while a screwdriver may work as a chisel for a short time, it's not designed for that use, and is prone to sudden failure when subjected to that kind of abuse.
It's one thing to use a screwdriver to pry out a staple, or to dig out a bent nail until you can grab it with a pair of pliers, it's another thing to use it in place of a proper pry bar.

Ditto for dikes..
There are many types of dikes, designed for cutting different materials.. In general, the thinner the cutting edge, the cleaner the cut, and the softer the material.

The 5" pair of semi-flush cutting dikes that I use on the bench are a far cry from the 6" or 8" dikes, or the 7" end-cutting pliers in the toolbag.. I wouldn't dream of cutting 12 THHN with the 5" dikes.. nor would I use the 8" dikes to cut 24awg hokup wire..

I do use a screwdriver handle as a lightweight mallet, when I just need to induce some vibration, but I don't use it as a hammer, and I've been known to use a crescent wrench handle as a lever..

We are all so different it is interesting.

I will pretty much use whatever tool I have that works for the job.

I pull staples with Dyke's, pound nails with my linesman's and have chiseled with screwdrivers.

As for the safety of that, all 'chiseling' should be done with safety glasses regardless of the tool you use.

That said if I ruin my tools from misuse I do not blame the tool when it is clearly operator error.

I consider most hand tools to be more or less disposable. I do not get 'attached' to hand tools.

Expensive tools and / or tools that belong to others are another matter, they are treated like one of the family.


Bob

Ditto Bob's reply.

I have used my sidecutter pliers as a hammer to the point where they will no longer open no matter how hard I try to pry the handles apart. This qualifies me I believe to join the abuse club. Do I have to do any 12 step stuff as part of the recovery process?

I think the topic of this thread is common sense. If someone cuts a snake with a brand new set of linemans that is their problem. I would not chisel brick with a NEW Witte screwdriver, but one that's a year old and dull is gonna get some abuse.
ANYONE who cuts triplex with a ratchet cable cutter is either a green helper or a moron.

Good topic.

Is there a proper tool for tighting locknuts? Who doesn't use their screw driver and Kleins to tighten them? Channelocks won't always fit---locknuts are too big or area is cramped.

I tend to keep a set of old tools for general 'not quite what the manufacturer recommended' usage. (Screwdrivers as scrapers and/or wood chisels, I even have some sharpened for the job)

I fully agree with the comment about sudden failure of screwdrivers when used as a chisel, the transparent handled ones can shatter into very sharp pieces if hit with a mallet or hammer. I tend to use them in 'hand mode', just pushing. If it requires a mallet, it probably requires a chisel too. I'm not perfect though and thus tend to sometimes not have a chisel and mallet on me.

On the subject of using lineman's for a hammer, yes I've done that, but I have noticed even with high quality ones these days, the center rivet can knock out, leaving way too much play.

With ref to the locknuts, I wondered that while in the US too. In the UK you can get 'bush king' wrenches for tightening conduit bushes, and the lockrings tend to be rounded
as seen here , seemingly designed for channel locks.

Bill,
Check out this page for Klein's conduit locknut tool: http://www.jimslimstools.com/detail.aspx?ID=5965

Guilty, I would often use the regular screwdriver to get the knockout to the point where I could grab it with the pliers and always to drive the locknut.
Joe

I would have to agree with iwire also. just use the tool that works for your job, I use my screwdriver for a chisel everyday, or my linemans for a hammer... hey klein will replace them for free anyway, that's why you pay so much for them.. klein tools are made to take the abuse.. It's not like you are using your meter as a hammer (or maybe I will....lol)

I always use a hammer when driving in a plastic molley anchor. There's always the right tool for the job, and a pair of linemens to drive an anchor isn't it. I am also guilty of using a flathead as a chisel. Sorry, I gotta get done quickly so I can make more money. Simple as that.

I'm sure everyone here has a "beater", or other simulary named pointed object that resembels a flat head screwdriver to install lock-nuts... And not the Witte drivers either.

Speedypete beat me to it, that thier is a tool specifically designed for installing lock-nuts. Ironically this tool appeared when the word "Wrenchtight" showed up in the '99 Code. ( I think...) The year the 99 was adopted here, one savy Inspector asked if I had the "wrench" for the lock-nuts. I showed him a small pair of channel locks, he wasn't impressed, he wanted to see the Klien one for lock-nuts. I then told him what I had in my hand was a wrench, and my lock-nuts were "wrench-tight". And not wanting this to sound like an eastern european joke, but holding the lock-nut and turning the connector instead with pliers until tight, works better IMO.

Then there are these things, which remind me of can openers... http://premiertool.com/id77.htm

For larger ones, someone here uses a hammer-drill, in hammer only mode. I died laughing when I heard it, but have tried it, and it does the trick!

Outside of locknuts, I too use a little creativity for some things, but would not show those under me those tricks.

I also still have a label I made for my DeWalt drill that says, "Not a @#$%^&* hammer you dumb *&^!" After I caught someone using it as one when he borrowed it. That labels been there for about 5 years now, and makes it real easy to spot and identify that drill.
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Edit to add that the "wrench-tight" conversation answer to the inspector was at the suggestion of one of the members of ECN on the second time I was asked that same qusetion...

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 01-04-2006).]

Now I'm having a fond flashback to the 70's when I used my boss' stripper/crimper as an arc welder. He gave it to me as a reminder afterwards. That and I don't think he liked my 11 gauge stripper modification.
Joe

My hammer also has a simular label on it...

A few notes about locknuts....

The dedicated Klein tool is only intended for 1/2 and 3/4 nuts....according to Klein- and pretty much self-enforced!

Klein has a little orange book out, about the proper use of hand tools. Guess what? They show their screwdriver being used, with a hammer, to tighten lock-nuts (but don't try to collec on their 'lifetime' warranty after doing so!)

I really like those funky little wrenches, e57....I'll have to get some!

looks like it might be a good idea to market a chisel that can also be used to drive flat head screws

my boss has a BIG, hammered to heck, flathead screwdriver that we use to hammer on block/brick, I don't know what brand it is, but even after meeting with a few dozen cinderblocks/bricks and despite the warped and bashed head it somehow manages to turn the screws in the lugs of those 100 amp meter bases

I've also made some "unique gauge" wire strippers on accident

forgot to add: E57, we've got a pair of those "baby" channel locks and I really doubt that a specialized wrench could get the nuts tighter, especially with the "hold the nut, rotate the fitting" method, plus the channel locks are already a specialized tool, they're meant to tighten nuts, a locknut is a nut that's threaded onto a hollow tube instead of a bolt

I Purchase my own hand tools for my pouch. So does everyone else in the company. we also have to buy our own bits, taps, unibits, and other stuff like that. I'll give new guys advice about using their own tools but for the most part if you buy them you respect them or use them how you see best fit.
I carry a "Beater Screwdriver" in my pouch for tightening large locknuts and other uses as a chisel. I use my blue handle (not red) Klein Dikes to cut fish tapes and small screws. But I also carry an odd assortment of tools in my pouch that i dont think most electricians carry, like a scribe, thread file, round file, triangle file, punch, wire brush, and a worn out large screwdriver.
Bottom line is I only jump someone when I see them using a company tool in a way that they wouldn't treat their own tools.
Recently the company started buying drill bits because we do Alot of work with Stinless steel And it griped me at how bits were being used after that.

Bill -

e57 said "Then there are these things, which remind me of can openers... http://premiertool.com/id77.htm

I have the 1/2" set and they work great IMO. I want to get the 3/4" set soon.

Steve

Everyone says that Klein has this great replacement warranty. Has anyone actually tried it?

I've read through it ( here ), and from the sound of it there are almost no circumstances under which they will replace your tool. If the tool simply "wears out" it's not under warranty, and if you damage a screwdriver from beating on it, the warranty is void. Seems to me darn near anything that happens to a tool they can claim over-use or abuse. After I learned that, I'm thinking about buying a small cold-chisel to carry around instead of using my flat-heads.

I think the locknut tools are a waste. The size locknuts that the wrenches fit can be more easily tightened by simply turning the connector.

-John

I bought one of those "can opener" style locknut wrenches a few years back.
It lasted nearly all day.

During summer I had a short tiem of practice with an electrical contractor. Since I was only on pratcice I had to use the other guy's tools. Tell you, there wasn't a single screw driver around that hadn't been beaten to death! Side cutters were the universal tool for everything, from stripping wires and cables to loosening or tightening nuts. I don't claim I treat my own tools too well, but I don't do stuff like that!
Using an old screwdriver for a chisel is common practice here. Plumbers also use their screwdrivers to nail copper pipe to brick walls until the mortar has set...

My understanding of Klein's warranty is that they don't cover normal wear and tear, abuse, or use inconsistent with the tool's design. So, if you use your screw driver has a pry bar and snap it in half, you're SOL. As Big John mentioned it doesn't seem so remote that almost any tool failure could be covered in one of those three catagories.

Craftsman (and others) offer unconditional replacement on their hand tools. For those who use this screwdrivers as chisels, etc. it might not be a bad idea to pick up a set of those and leave the Kleins for screwing.

Thanks for the tip as I was thinking of ordering one.

Bob

This thread is as sick as a cucumber in a bowl of butterscotch pudding.
Supposed intelligent electricians don't seem to realize the difference between a screwdriver and a chisel. Jeez, it has a handle and a metal shaft with a flat end, so what's the diff'?
I've always had a respect for tools and when I started out as an apprentice, the first things I bought included a $3 3/8" cold chisel and a 1/2" Stanley, Contractor Grade wood chisel. [$8 if you can afford it.]
Incidently, Japan Woodworker sells some wood chisels for upwards of $500.
~Peter