Im working in an housing development right now "200+ single fam." .just finished #17.the inspector that we had was just elec.and realy knew his stuff.becouse i am working in the some housing development that he is inpecting he always called me to walk the house with him.During the inspection he would show me diferent ways to do the job, to make it faster or look better and was always full of helpfull advice everyone else thought he was a picky &^#$ but I never failed an inspection becouse I was always there to fix any little thing he found before he even left .most times he would stand and watch as I did the fix.----NOW he has been replaced with a general inspector for the whole house,,,I am verry uncomfortable with him becouse, I come over to the house during the inspection and he barly even looks at the elec.the most he ever even looks at is wether the fire stop insulation is filing the holes were the wires pass thru.this inspector is loved by everyone and it it afecting workmanship.things are getting sloppy.my guys get a little pissed when I tell them I dont care what the ispectore will pass you still have to do it the right way...any advice???

No advice just condolences.
Good inspectors level the playing field and promote safe installations.
Multi-hat, everything is ok because they don't know the Code, guys will get someone hurt or property damaged.
Remember the inspector generally has no liability for missing things, although some sucessful law suits have been filed.
You as the contractor will be held responsible. You might want to let the GC know that he too can be exposing himself to future legal action if he starts letting bad work get approved.
Alan--Inspector

Vlad, just keep up your efforts to do things right, and things will be fine.

I know it can be reassuring to have an inspector bless your work, but it appears as though you will have to don a new hat and be your own inspector.

Alan, I agree that in general "Multi-Hat Inspectors have one strong field and the others seem to suffer, but then there is our own Ryan J who is an exception to the rule.

Roger

Don't let any of your guys be around for the inspection... Tell them he's a total code nazi, and all the nit-picky subleties you can even create, came from him.

Or, just lay down the law, its your way or the highway.

I would suggest you move to Salt Lake City. It is my understanding that in that area, they hire the very best of the best multi-hat inspectors who happen to know the codes way better than most, and I am pretty sure are just what you are looking for.

You guys are far too kind. Thanks very much.

Probably the hardest thing to teach is professionalism.

Inspectors, as far as I am concerned, are useless, or irrellevant. I don't mean that as disrespect for inspectors, though....what I mean is that "right" is "right," whether an inspector will see it or not.
To see it all as a game, with the goal of slipping as much as possible past the inspector, is simply childish. As professionals, there are plenty of times where we have to use our judgement. This is not something to do lightly.

Nor does it matter what "everyone else does." Where there are no men, try to be a man.

The crew is YOUR crew. They look to you for guidance, for leadership. In return, they owe you their fidelity- that is, you have to be able to trust them to follow directions whether you (or an inspector) are there to catch them, or not.

The biggest problem I see at a lot of places is that they give their leadership positions to the "best performer," without any training in how to lead. Leadership isn't learned overnight.

Some folks have encountered these sorts of situations before. Just how do you "internally motivate" a crew? Two suggestions stand out:
-Let the guys doing the work have some say in how it's done; and,
-Set up competing crews, with performance criteria spelled out in advance. Winner gets a bonus, prize, whatever.

I know what you mean about multi hat inspectors, they are jack of all trades, masters of none. Multi hat inspectors are hired for financial reasons, they would rather hire one inspector as opposed to an inspector for every trade, my advice would be if you are in charge of the wiring, make your crew follow the code or get rid of them.

Vlad,

Again, I too am sorry that you have to deal with a multi-hat inspector. I worked in the field as an apprentice, journeyman and owner of my own company before I became an AHJ. I promised myself that I would treat each and every contractor they way I wanted to be treated. If I see something wrong on the job, I would just say, "Hey john, could you fix that so that it meets code. Thank You." and go on. The EC's knew when something had to be fixed and they knew that I would be checking up on it for the final inspection. Some multi hats only know the book knowledge and not what is out there in the real world. BTW do you have a Construction Board of Appeal(CBA)? Here in NJ if someone doesn't like my call, they can take me in front of the CBA. They will have a chance to state their opinion and challenge mine, but I will have to back up my statement with a code section. If the board agrees with me, then the EC will have to do it my way, and vice-versa. Good luck!

Vlad,
With your handle, why should I believe that any inspector sucks more than you do??? Also, if you are an EC, why do you have a handle more befitting a lawyer or ex-wife???
Joe van Helsing

http://www.vladtheimpaler.com/

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 11-13-2005).]

vlad_tepish ---

No professional should ever fail an inspection.

I understand we are not perfect, but we should know the code and have the skills for the work we do all day long.

In any case the "boss" should be aware enough of the ability of the installers to do his own inspection.

Inspectors are there for 2 reasons:

1) to "inspect" those who lack skill and supervision.

2) to inspect those who are working outside of their daily knowlege/skill set.

A typical job description for an electrical inspector, http://www.law.buffalo.edu/research/centers/govlaw/erieco/east/EA_CHAP53.html

Whaaaaa?
___________________________________________________
Qoute from George:
>>Inspectors are there for 2 reasons:

1) to "inspect" those who lack skill and supervision.

2) to inspect those who are working outside of their daily knowlege/skill set.<<
___________________________________________________

Sounds like your there to inspect people not workmanship & materials.

Rob

My 2 and 1/2 cents......

I thought the main purpose of an Electrical Inspector is to ensure a Code compliant installation, hence a safe installation.

Not to be the guy to write the 'punch list'; not to be 'the reason the job is held-up, or stopped; not to be an 'instructor' for those with a lack of knowledge; and not to be 'a guy with an attitude'.

OK, yes, there were, and may still be some 'attitude' guys, "my way", etc., but with my EC hat on, I don't see them anymore.

As an AHJ in a 32 sq. mi. town, I see all kinds of 'work'; from some of the best professionals, to some of the bigest nightmare 'homeowners', with the occasional handyman/unlicensed guy thrown in.

In NJ, "Workmanship" cannot be cited as a violation; but.....99.9% of the time, you can find enough NEC items within a "sloppy" job, to write a red sticker.

A personal note; seems that the multi-license AHJ's are a hot commodity in these parts also; a lot of the towns are seeking them.

John

John,
Finished the 34 Hours this past Sat, we had a good number of inspectors in the class, very intresting day, the subject of requiring a sealed plan for installation of commercial lighting came up, and that made the day.

Les:
Not to thread jack.....
I have a "O" for my 34 as of today.
John

For anyone who doesn't watch "Romania's Most Wanted", I owe an apology here! Vlad the Impaler was a ruthless ruler with a nasty habit of making shish kabobs out of those he defeated. He inspired Bram Stoker's novel, "Dracula". The lawyers and ex-wife comment was a cross reference to other forms of blood suckers. Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone!!!
Joe

[This message has been edited by JoeTestingEngr (edited 11-14-2005).]

Vladimir Putin - President of the Russian Federation
Vladimir Guerrero - Baseball Player (Angels)
Vladimir Dezhurov - Cosmonaut
St. Vladimir - Patron Saint of Russian Catholics
Vladimir Horowitz - Russian/American concert pianist.
And a long, long list of others.
How many things we can find involving the name "Joe" or "Bob"? Bet they aren't all flattering.
TV is no place to learn anything, and ECN is no place to beat on people because of their name.
Just My Opinion




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-15-2005).]

It's called humor. That's what I love about this site, even when things get heated sometimes there is always someone to pop up and make me laugh. I got it Joe.

ha ha liked the dracula comment
today we finished #19
just a thought should the gc be well versed in the nec or is it all up to me?today the gc told me to install some closet lites that he just bought at the orange box.I told him that they were the wrong lites"they were cealing mount and the closet boxes are wall mount" they would not meet the 12 inch clearance from the shelves.he said to put them up anyway so I did.inspection failed."""I pointed the clearance problem out to the inspector""".
if the gc is responsible for buying the fixtures shouldnt he be aware of the proper fixure for the proper place?

Vlad you should NEVER do anything that violates the code. You are the EC on the job and it's your job not the GC's job to see the job is done right and to code.
I had a GC try to get me do make splices and bury them in the wall so we wouldn't have to cut the drywall. He got my answer when I pulled out the sawzall and started cutting away.
In your case, what would happen if the inspector missed the lights in the closets and a fire started after a family moved in? You did the right thing by bringing it to his attention, but you should not have installed them in the first place.

With a twirl, he entered the parlour.
All set for the Fancy Dress Gala.
His wife said "Fred,
Are those horns on your head?"
"Yes, I'm going as Vlad the Impala!"

Since we are doing poetry, how about a haiku?


Why are we talking
about Vlad the impaler
on this web forum?

How about another.....

Vlad the impaler
was dead long before there was
electricity

Just think, if he would have lived later he might have been known as Vlad the Lectricutor.

Roger

Ok, lets distil the thread in Haiku.
(Forgive any broken rules, I'm new at this

Snow is on it's way:
Vlad: Always work to the Code:
Inspector very happy!

Alan

edit ps: Hey, Itoh;
If you are still with us in
Yokahama: OK?

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 11-16-2005).]

Dang it Alan! Haiku's have to have 5 syllables in the first line 7 in the next, 5 in the last. You did 5-7-7. If I were a moderator I would delete your post and report you to the Haiku police

I know I'm going to regret this but...

Vlad the Impaler
Lives in Hollywood today
He is now SPIKE Lee

I am so sorry
Most honorable forum
Please excuse faux pas

Joe

That was pretty good...except doesn't Spike lee live in NYC?

Those moderators, just can't fool them...

Vlad the Impaler
Lives in Hollywood today
He is PIERCE Brosnan


And if you've ever had your Brosnan pierced, you know how painful it can be!

Joe

Where is this thread going??.
There are a few posts that should be edited here.
Good Lord!!.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 11-17-2005).]

Trumpy you are the moderator, "Impale them"

this one too ;-)

George said...
"No professional should ever fail an inspection."
I've been a contractor for 14 years doing work in Res., Comm., and Ind. and I have yet to see an electrician who is right all the time about everything on the job.
The fact is that the code book is big and covers many apsects of the trade but, can't cover every situation. This is where the local AHJ comes in.
It's his job to make sure the installation is sound and safe and meets code everywhere that's applicable.
This trade covers a huge amount of material and anyone who claims that they have never failed an inspection, only specializes in a very small portion of it, has only been in business a very short while, or never pulls permits.
Professionalism dictates how you correct the mistakes you make, not that you won't make them.

Just my two cents worth.

"anyone who claims that they have never failed an inspection, only specializes in a very small portion of it, has only been in business a very short while, or never pulls permits."

That's about it.

Les:
Since this is on & off track...
Had an inspection, EC was on site. His first words were " I've never failed an inspection!!". I glanced down at the tech card to see his #; hmm...15xxx!. Started at the garage...he had firewall violations (3); continued into the kitch/DR....#14...wrote a red sticker..... end of story.

New boy on the block??

John

I promise to stop with this one but it comes from my heart.

Tasks they ask of you
Could cause harm to someone else
Too high a price paid!

Your GC was obviouly not as well VERSED in Electrical Safety as the PROSE in this forum.

You did the right thing making sure improper fixtures didn't remain in place! It would've been nicer though, if it had been done in a better way to educate others as to acceptable choices for the given location.
Joe