... Here's a picture of the "puller" my mechanic's Grandfather made for us to help with last weeks arduous 150 ft,250kcmil,underground service pull,...and you guys might just laugh at it,but the joke's on you,...the little thing worked like a charm,..no expensive wire pullers for me... He welded pieces of versa-strut together,along with a pulley wheel he found in his automotive parts milk-crate in his garage.. Don't you guys go and steal his million dollar idea,now..(patents pending)


(edited to put picture on ECN's server)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-13-2005).]

Thats a nice rig your grandfather made, but I don't think the pole will fit into my truck, so I am going to keep my super tugger for a while.

...
... Ahhhh,but that's where you're wrong,and the genius of this device begins... the pole telescopes down from a whopping 30 feet to a neat and totally toteable 3 foot section... easily stowed in your pipe-rack for future use..
Russ

... and it wasn't MY Grand-dad,it was my worker's Grand-dad whose brainchild this was...

...It will be appearing in a "Ronco" infomercial soon,.. Ron Popeil>>> <(known for his invention of a can of SPRAY PAINT to combat male pattern baldness,as well as the "Veg-A-Matic") will tout it as the "Ronco Pull-A-Matic"....I can't wait! (this item is not available in stores)..




[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 11-13-2005).]

Attic Rat,
Is that puller attached to the pole with coach-screws?.
Putting screws and other such things into the side of a pole can compromise the weather proofing of the pole and in time cause it to prematurely rot out, if the holes are not sealed.

... Yes,Mike,..they are 3/8"dia.X 2"lag screws,..but I got the OK from the PoCo inspector before I did it..the pole is coated in creosote,and the holes will be dressed upon completion..
Russ

So that's where all those "Leaning Poles of Pisa" came from!!
I think you'll find the creosote goes a tiny bit deeper than a coating;- the vacuum-pressure system used means it practically goes all the way thro' the pole section.
As to a patent, you've posted this in the public domain now Russ, so its all ours! ECN strikes again!!
Who the heck is Ron?

Alan

Very impressive Russ. 150' of 250 mcm sounds like a lot of weight. What size pipe? and who was the horse on the business end of the pull? (I have this picture in my head of a couple of guys dangling from the rope...it's not budging because the wire is over 400 lbs.)

Dave

Mike


That must be a down under thing as Alan pointed out the creosote goes deep if not all the way.

Besides our poles are likely to be brought down by a car or truck long before they rot.

Bob

AR I have just one suggestion (OK I have more but I will keep quiet ) If you use this rig again put a second pulley at the base of the pole so that you are not placing to much 'side' loading of the pole as you pull.

It is also easer for people to pull up on a rope pitched down then pulling down on a rope pitched up.

Loss of traction becomes an issue, this applies to pick ups and vans as well as people.

... I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop........... what's your other suggestions? C'mon,Bob, now you've got me curious..
Russ

Don't you remember all those Ronco commercials on television? They all looked very similar to the K-Tel ones.
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/popeil.htm

I actually have a comparable set-up; I made a triangular frame with pulley held at hitch-heigth of my truck.

I haven't used it much, since a customer objected to my truck in the elevator :-)

If you are using any kind of mechanical device, be very careful using that type of rope. It has a lot of stretch and will store a lot of energy. If it breaks people may get hurt and things may be damaged. That is why the tugger manufactures specify a very expensive rope for pulling purposes. It is a static rope with little stretch and will not store much energy. The type of rope shown in the photo it dynamic and may stretch 10 to 15%. This also creates danger to the feeder as the conductors tend to "jump" into the conduit when using a dynamic rope. The rope stretches until the weight of the cable and the friction is overcome and then as the rope returns to close to its normal length, the conductors jump into the raceway. It can take the feeders fingers with, if he is not careful.
Don

Don that is a very good point.

I have seen heavy conductors 'jump' into a conduit at lightning speed when being pulled into a raceway with the wrong rope and a truck.

I was not a participant mealy another contractor working on a large site.

The person feeding was lucky not to lose fingers or more.

Bob

... I had used 3/8" Ideal wire pulling rope rated at 2700lbs at break test,and 300lbs working load...and plenty of lube in the 3" pipe...no offsets,and (2)-3 foot,90 degree sweeps.. easy pull.
Russ

Attic rat, I have bad news, you wont be able to patent a pully with a single anchor point. You might be able to patent a pully system but would have to be unique, pretty darn unique. However for a copywrite for a name, all you have to do is have a dated, printed form or picture of it distributed with its name, among your peers to guarantee a date, then search for possible matches..... Not sure if the internet counts, but you may have already taken the first step?

As for pulling with poly rope, I do it all the time with HAND pulls only. One, tops two guys. If it needs more than that, the rope comes out, and gets the braided stuff with the puller.

Years ago I was called over to a job to help another foreman with a pull of 4X250 at 200' in an undersized 2 1/2". I got there and he had seven or eight guys on a poly rope, just then the rope snapped and sent everyone 20' into a pigpile on the otherside of the room. Fortunately no one was hurt. (Had the boss pull the guy and had to start over... He wouldn't listen to anyone when they told him the pipe was too small, or when complained that it was dangerous to try like that.)

Pulling with a truck, I'll never do that again! Ten years ago, had a boss pull that one, dropped the clutch and nearly took me through the pipe as I fed it.

Ok, no joking this time. Using an automobile to pull wire is stupid and hazardous. As the poster said, a failed clutch is all too common in using one, and also there is no real control of the pull. A Greenlee tugger or equal should be planned for and purchased by any electrical contractor who opens a commercial shop and plans to be in for the long haul. It is as necessary as a work van or truck to the business. The tuggers and the proper pulling rope, sheaves, etc. can be rented also. For easy pulls, I am all for rigs like the one in the picture, but when people start hooking up pull rope to the back bumper of a pickup, that is when other people can and do get injured. If you have to , try using a hydralic method instead, like tying to the forks of a forklift, and slow steady lifting the rope up out of the conduit.

... No,the pull was made by hand,..or should I say,.. hands...we had the help of the masons on the job,..it cost me a case of Corona's....not a bad deal..hehe.

... I wouldn't ever attempt to place anyone (myself included)in harms way..I've seen what can happen to people and property when things go awry... It was safe,and by the numbers all the way!!
Russ

A buddy of mine has a puller made by Greenlee?? it uses a Rigid pony power threader to power it. Works pretty well the one time I saw in use. Anyone use it??

Seen these one of these used as well:



bolted to a piece of strut... I assume he found it in a scrap pile.

why didnt you just sleeve the pipe over the wire before you put it in the ditch?? makes life a lot easier. who wants to pull wire for 150'?

Been thinking about these for a while...

Maxis puller....

iwire.. I have never installed a underground service pipe, and then pulled the wire through. who wants to, or is able to, pull 4/0 urd through 2" pipe, most of the time around 200'. there is no code that says that you cant sleeve it first, and then put it in the ditch. besides who has the time to do it that way??

What do you mean by "sleeve it'?

Dave

makokiller


Actually there is a code rule that prevents that and I posted it above.


Bob

Tiger

Sliding the pipe over the wire and glueing it together, then throwing it in the trench.

Which, in a roundabout way, brings me to mention my new favorite trick of the trade....

When pulling down on a rope...I figured out a new, lazy way to do it. Make a loop in the rope, with the bottom of the loop about knee-high. Hold the two parts of the rope together at eye level. Insert foot into loop and step up- your weight does all the pulling!

This also works if your fish tape is one of thise made out of a coil, such as the Ideal "Slick-Tape."

FYI - PVC glue actually melts plastic, like insulation.

For underground service, I go by POCO spec's, and let those premidonnas pull it, they'll charge for it either way....

"premidonnas", because either way, if I pull it or not, they will only allow 2 90's with 2-3' sweeps in conduit you could drive a truck through with supplied rope, and have a hissy fit if theres another 10 degrees in it. Like it would ruin thier whole day.

If its 150' - 300' long, they are definately pulling it, and supplying the wire, same fee. (paid by customer)

Premidonna, Gas and Electric...

Feeders and branch, I get to pull....

I have a couple of Greenlee pulleys I would use on a pull like that. I set the pulley as high on the pole as I can with a extension ladder to avoid half hitching the rope over and over to get the wires long enough.
I also anchor to the pole with a through bolt or a few lags and it's fine with the Power co.

... "Sleeving" in this sense is not an option in my book...for two reasons..it's a Code violation,and also because PVC glue will adhere to the conductors and may compromise the insulation,..not only that,if for some "Gawd forsaken" reason you need to extract one or more of the conductors,you'd be unable to do so because the glue will have adhered to the wires and side-wall of pipe making extraction impossible..(although this example pertains more appropriately to smaller conductors run thru pipe)...
Russ

Rat,

"Sleeving" in this sense is not an option in my book..."

Funny story about that, we hired a guy that came to us with good recommendations, the first day on the job, i get a call from the app working with him, you better get over here now, don't wait until noon, When i get there, he is sleeving the pipe over the cable, as it turned out he never had any formal trainning at all, just one of those guys that worked for a lot of different EC's, and picked up a few very bad habits, considering he was working harder then he had to , and had a family to support, i gave him a choice go back to school, and stay with us, or pay for last day, he went back to school and a year later left us to move on to a better paying position.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 11-18-2005).]

...Renosteinke, that is sooo cool!! how did it work for you?? I really like the design..I copied the photo to show my guy's Grand-dad...He's gonna be sooo mad!!

... LK, great story,man,... I can relate


Oh,..by the way,..passed my service/trench inspection today with flying colors..I'm quite proud... it's my first underground 300 amp. service... I'm glad thats over with!! HATS AND HORNS!!
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 11-19-2005).]

Attic Rat, the frame works fine. The only drawback is that, with my truck pulling a lot harder than I can, it will easily pull up pipe that is buried under only a few inches of dirt! You really MUST have the pipe 2 ft down.

John,

I just went to look at a job this morning, may just may need a rig like yours, the power is from the truck is that correct?

Correct- I just attach the rope to the frame of the truck...and drive ever so slowly! You really do need to have a 'feeder' and a 'spotter' for this job- and communicatio between them!

An VERY important safety note...NEVER simply loop the rope around a hitching ball. Those things can- and often do- shear, resulting in a hardened steel ball flying at someone's head like a bullet. There are regular fatalities from this practice.

Safer to hook up a horse to it.

A safer method of powering this from the truck would be welding a winch to the frame, and powering that from a pair of jumper cables IMO.

The idea behind these improvised things is to have a "quick and dirty" device to help you pull wire....especially long, heavy runs, or where the position is awkward.

I will be the first to admit that my frame is of very, limited use, and for that reason doesn't get used very often.

Sure, you could try to rig a "Hole Hawg" to a gearbox and brace it against the pipe itself...but Maxis does just that....it costs about $400...and you need a power source for the motor.

You could get a truck with a winch....but those cost $$$$, and you're still limited to places where your truck will go.

Or- maybe get a battery, motor, and mount it on some sort of frame, with a pulley you can position to pull in different directions? Express Technology ( www.dcwireexpress.com ) has such a rig...I'm afraid of how much it costs.


The old standby, Greenlee, has a couple of wonderful pullers - which are probably over-kill for most pulls - but at a cost in the thousands of dollars.

I think it was General Patton who said "Don't let a perfect plan become the enemy of a good plan....a good plan executed today beats a perfect plan that won't be ready until tomorrow!"

I must confess that is one of the things I really like about electric work....in a variety of jobs, I have never before been among such a bunch of creative, inventive folks. An amazing number of our parts, methods, and tools came from the trade- and not some pencil-neck geek sitting at a drafting table!

Yes no doubt but many times it is a fine line between an innovative way to do things and dangerous.

FWIW I like your pulling rig. but I still advise against truck pulls if at all possible. To hard to be reliable controlled at the slow speeds needed.

For pulling out of hand holes and site poles I will cantilever a piece of rigid off my ladder racks with ratchet straps so it overhangs the rear of the truck. Hang a pulley from that then we can use a few guys hand pulling sideways instead of up from the ground.

Bob

I once had the opportunity to pull wire with an elephant.
After she pulled some badly stuck 750 kcmil out for us, it was hard to go back to the "regular" methods of pulling.

I don't suggest using the truck, and agree with iwire that a winch mounted on a truck is a much better way to go.

There's a joint here that rents any type of pulling equipment (and benders) you want for about $35 a day. Kind of specialize in electrical equipment... Either way, <$50 for an afternoon, or even $100.... Not having a wrongful death suit, and/or 'Comp case, it's a bargian! If you need it a few times a year, buy one.

Price the rental, and or its use right into the job.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 11-21-2005).]

"Yes no doubt but many times it is a fine line between an innovative way to do things and dangerous."

I have seen my share of accidents with home brew equipment, most of them involved serious injuries, the tested and true equipment has enough hazzards.

I prefer to rent the proper tools, part of the cost of doing business, just add the cost to the estimate.

Be Safe

I cannot agree with you guys more. I wish I had access to rental equipment, like pullers and benders. Yet, that is not an option in my area. I have not been able to find such equipment available for rent.

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention.