I'm probably just repeating what some ancient Greek stone mason said, but what is your take on the level of craftsmanship (electrical) these days.
It seems like too many corners get cut and the customer either doesn't care or doesn't know the difference to ask for a proper job. Of course the contractors have to push to get the project installed at a profit but some things should be a given.

My work is mainly in the industrial field (don't even get me started on residential) and it really bugs me to see things like:
Not deburring edges
Sharp corners have been left untouched
Conduit bends not matching (just kills me)
Conduit & panels not level or plumb
Exposed PVC pipe not supported properly
Conduit racks where the pipes criss-cross like spaghetti
Messy terminations in control panels
No wire numbers!!!!!!!

What are your pet peeves?

It's never going to end. To the home owner or company, they don't know the difference. At long as it works to them, it doesn't matter.

As for the contractor, as long as they make maximum profit with cutting corners enough so that nothing happens within the next 6-12 months is what they aim for, in my honest opinion.

There's only a handful of electricians and contractors that actually rather make a decent profit, but the work is done right, the first time, to last for years to come.

"Make everyday your masterpiece"

I have seen this quote in my CPA's office and i truly believe in it.

You are right most customers do not know the difference between workmanship and a good workmanship.

IMHO take pride in what you do because you know it is the best workmanship. because the one who should notice will notice.

Edward

I'll tell you what we have found. The lowest price gets the job. How do suppose they get the price way down there?? So you and I stand up and say - No way, we just won't do work like that!! That other guy, well they'll soon see that you get what you pay for!! Meanwhile that other guy is eating your lunch!! Just the way I see it..

Bill I suggest you worry about your own work and let the customer worry about the others work.

I am not trying to be rude just pointing out that if this stuff drives you crazy you are getting stressed about things beyond your control.

Install your own work as you see fit and that separates you from the others. Because of that difference if the local economy supports it you can charge more for your work.

That is how the company I work for tries to sell, we cost more but you get more.

However we all want (need) to work and if the customer beats the price down some things have to go. We can not compromise the safety of the installation so all that is left is cheaper materials and faster, less pretty work.

All the trades are in the same boat, we can only provide what the customer is willing to pay for. We can not take the work at a loss just so we can say

Wow what a great looking job we did.

Anyway I feel there are still craftsman out their it is just that they are not allowed the time to do everything they want to do.

It's sad but I do not see it changing.

FWIW I hate all the things you listed and I will add threaded rods left long under strut racks, always good for hitting you head on.

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 10-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 10-08-2005).]

Good post Bob, not to worry, here in New Jersey everything is going to change, all work will be preformed in a perfect manner, prices will all be just what you want, all customers will be happy with everything you do, and there will be no more hackers working in New jersey, you see, we have the 34 hours of CEU's and this will cure all our problems.

Slightly OT as I pride myself with craftsmanship however after all my hard work I am disgusted with some of the poor quality fixtures I am asked to install. Even some of the high priced junk from the lighting stores. I have a box filled with various mounting plates and straps since many times the one that comes with the fixture won't work. Plus the fixtures are so flimsy you can't get them to hold tight to the surface half the time....EOR (end of rant)

There are many things that irrrrritate me when I see some of the crap that has been installed, too many things to list as I am sure ya'll know. When my oldest boy was first getting into being my helper, I told him to do the best job he could do and not to be satisfied unless he was willing to put his name on his work (figuratively of course). After he started to get some experience, he would point out things, like sloppy conduit bending or pipe runs, etc. that he would see whenever we were somewhere that the ceilings were open. Don't get me wrong, I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination nor is he but both of us try to do a quality job. So IMO you do the best that you can and don't worry about what the other guy has done. You can't change them. As the Beatle song went (for those of you old enough to remember who they were--ha ha ha) "Just sing obla-di-bla-da life goes on bra la la la life goes on!"
Man, now I have to break out my turntable and throw that vinyl on.....
And that as they say is my 2 cents worth.

Most of the times it is not even worth trying to make it nice.
The customer doesn't know the difference and all they do know is your more expensive then the other guys. Keep in mind the reason we are doing this is to make a living not to prove what a nice install we can do. It might be are 1st choice of work because we enjoy it, but bottom line we need to make a living. Do the job so that it works properly
looks right and will last. In the end if the 90's don't match up it will still work fine for years. So the customer who doesn't know better even if you let them know just doesn't care to spend the money.
Just my $.02

"The customer doesn't know the difference"
____________________________________________

He may not know, but his brother in law, or family friend may know, you will not have to keep in mind, the reason we are doing this is to make a living, if the 90's don't match up, or the workmanship is sloppy.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 10-09-2005).]

There are still some people who appreciate quality work. When this housing boom slows down it will be the hacks who get fired first.

it is also up to those of us that want to provide the better workmanship to properly sell it to the customer. People are open to paying more if they understand there is pooor workmanship out there. I carry a few photos of some "spaghetti" jobs around when I talk to people, but my jobs are usually special end-use, like recording studios or custom homes, so it is easier to explain the need for neatness to those folks.

The attitude everywhere seems to be:

"Good enough for today is good enough".

"Poor Craftsmanship" should be the motto for about 90% of the electrical contractors in this area.
A few others...

"Exceeding your expectations, when you have none."

"Done right the 8th time, every time."

"No permit? No inspection? No problem!"

"You pay only 3 times to have it done right."

"All calls returned, eventually."

"Call us first, because you'll always need someone else afterwards."

"Need insurance money? Call Firestarters Electrical Contractors today; move into your dream house tomorrow."

"We all die eventually, why wait any longer than necessary?"

Redsy:
Now that's some company motto collection.

I saw something last Thursday that made me stop and think that I was ashamed to be an electrician. However, thinking further, that was not my work; a 'red sticker' worked wonders!! (That's an advantage as an AHJ)

John

I apologize to the other contractors in my area. I was exaggerating. It can't be 90%.
It's probably closer to 89%.

Redsy: What can you do when you get a service call, half my house is out, we get ther, check the panel, sure eniough one leg is open, pull the meter, leg open, up to the head, and take the tape off, supprise!, romex connectors.

The owner just had the service done last year, by a licensed contractor, this is not the first time we ran across this, and from the same guy, this EC is one that complains about part timers, and hacks eating his lunch.

Your % may be a little low for my area.

Les,

Interesting.
I always assumed that the reason that about 75% of the work I see is in violation, is because PA has no licensing requirements.
Anyone can do electrical work for hire, legitimately, in most towns.
You're in NJ, right?

Here in MA we DO have regulations and license requirements. We are licensed and insured. Do you know how aggravating it is when the unlicensed, uninsured, unqualified hack gets the job? Price is all that matters. Few people or companies actually check to make sure the guy they hire is licenced or insured. They look at the price and figure; why pay $1000 when I can get the job done for $600!?!?! When the hack is done it still reflects on our entire trade.

I don't see how the 34 hours of CE (for NJ...where I am also) will make the craftsmanship improve - the hacks that ARE licensed will have to make the 34 hours (plus class costs) up someplace.

The ECs that hire sub-craftsman help know this... Joe EC can make just as much if not more production from a hack and increase his bottomline by that much. Hiring a "perfectionist" costs more.

I wish I were wrong, but I see too much crappy work.

I KNOW I am NOT the cheapest guy in town, I'm probably in the top 10% on cost. My customers KNOW my work is perfect. Yes it cost more. Do I care? Not really. Does the customer care? Of course...but done once and done right will happen. I tend to NOT get many "cold calls", most of, if not all, my calls are from referrals from other customers.

I never played the "slam-jam-and scram" game, and don't intend to. My guys know I want the job done quickly - BUT I better not EVER get a call from a dissatisfied customer....or a red sticker. To accomplish that, all the item s mentioned in the first post are not the way I want the job done.

Define "Craftsmanship"??.
Considering that to a degree, we can't even get
Workmanship right, is Craftmanship a step up?.

An young English friend, who has just started a small legit. building company, just quoted another Brit for a roof job; small house; remove old slates, re-felt and new batten, rehang the original slates + say 15% new, on stainless steel hangers, plus clay ridge. He had just completed a remodel on the same guy's house, on time, below budget and did a beautiful competent job, and managed the project hiring-in a first class electrician and plumber. His roof quote was roughly US$150 per day plus materials. That sounds low, but this is a low-earnings area. Who got the job? A hack who only 3 years ago took US$2000 up-front from the same client for the urgent demolition of a storm damaged building, and then took 18 months to start the job! When pumped by me in the bar, the client admitted the French builder was 2/3 the price, which sounded too good to be true, but he liked to hire in local artisans!
Honestly, you cannot educate planks!
All they think about is the bloody price.
I still do a bit of cabinetmaking when the muse is on me. If I don't like the client on first meeting them, I double my price for future hassles, and if they don't like it hard cheese. If I think they are nuts, ( like the woman who wanted hardwood windows a foot wide from floor to ceiling), I decline to quote at all. But then, I don't need money, what I need is time, ( you know, grim-reaper getting close etc.), and they don't sell it nowhere!

edit grammar.
Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 10-14-2005).]