Now that I have you in here. Go ahead and take a stab at this:

I live in GA. (as my profile states). I want to start a sole proprietorship type company. I am going to get a tax id # and file with the local county and state.

Now here is the kicker. I want to start an electrical based consulting company. I see no reason why I couldn't consult people, at a reasonable rate, as to what they may need done and point them in the direction of some licensed electricians. Now I was thinking of a name such as " Blah Blah's Electrical consulting"


Anyone see any problems with this? I am 90% sure the home inspectors in our state don't need to be licensed, so why would I need to be to consult?

Here in Canada, home inspectors need to be licensed, and they cannot perform electrical inspections. I can't, even as a certified electrical contractor, perform electrical inspections - only the electrical inspector can.

What I do is give an "evaluation" with recommendations based on my experience and knowledge of the electrical code.

Not sure what the requirements would be in your state, but I would say a solid knowledge of wiring and electrical codes would be essential for you to do electrical consulting. Good Luck.

Let's say that you may not need a license.
Now, let's simply get some customers to call you or come through your doors.
What do you have to offer them? Do you have experience? Are you qualified? Do you have the education, electrical license, degreed, etc.
In other words what do you have to offer for what you would like to get paid? Why would the customer rely on the accuracy of the information that you are providing them? What liability do you have when you provide the customer with that information if you are not experience or qualified?
Just some thoughts.
Dave T

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I see two problems with your venture. First, consulting is usually performed by someone with a great amount of experience. Second, I don't know why people would hire a consultant when they could consult with ECs who will perform the work.

I should qualify this by stating that there are plenty of services that I'd never use and are doing much better business than me.

As for the legalities, contact a lawyer or AHJ.

Dave

I doubt you can do this and still be in compliance with union rules. They tend to take a dim view on any type of competition, especially from their own, although hopefully you are no doubt aware of this.

I have to agree with everyone , especially CTwireman !
I wonder why you are asking this of folks on this forum instead of Mr. Smith !
I think you need more experience, quite a bit more in fact.
You have finished your second year with good grades, and you're feeling pretty good huh? from the sound of it maybe a little cocky too
You should feel good, it's been hard work. There are some hard classes yet,ahead of you, shouldn't you concentrate on those ?

Sixer: Thanks for the positive outlook.

Dave T: I can offer people the truth. If I don't know the answer I can find it. I may not have all the experience, but the goal is to point people in the right direction, and possibly make a little in the process.


Tiger: I understand the legality part of it and am currently chasing the answer down. Now as far as experience, there are some inspectors who only glance over things. I am talking about a whole electrical breakdown. Then pointing them in the direction of a licensed and insured electrician.


CTwireman: I am a union apprentice, but I do not have to pay dues until I decide to join. Secondly< I would not even be close to being competition for a union shop or even a non-union shop for that matter.

togol: not really worried about school. I have found as long as I put a decent effort into it and do the homework it all works out in the end. As far as being cocky, yeah I agree, I am not apprentice of the year or anything, but I get it done. I have done alot of sidework with fellow co-workers and have a good understanding of the residential side of the coin.


All:

Once again, I want to see if there is a market for this. If I can make some money and point people in the right direction to get their problems fixed, then what is the real problem? Is it the apprentice thing? No one here would have known this if they hadn't seen it in my name and profile.

Just want to add this:

Not really expecting a whole lot of business. More of a part-time hobby type thing. I do know that I looked around and saw no one else is doing this at the moment in my area.

I also see alot of posts about over-charging and not doing compliant work. Some homeowners don't know what to look for and I could be the extra (non- biased) set of eyes they may need.

"Consultant" really doesn't mean much. My S.P. is listed as consulting on my business license too, simply because it is a catch all that pretty much allows me to do anything that doesn't involve tools or touching people.

Actually getting hired usually requires other credentials and experience.

Two comments:

1) You're a union apprentice and you don't pay dues? Wow, they sure do things different down there.

2) How "unbiased" do you think you can remain when you start having friends in the trade who want you to send some work their way? You say you can point clients "in the direction of some licensed electricians." I see cronyism, kickbacks, potential ethics violations of all kinds....and at the very least not very "unbiased."

I think that it is very commendable that you feel that your knowledge is already at the level of a consultant. I am not the one to judge weather you have that knowledge or not. I do know that you will be hard pressed to find someone looking for a consultant in the residential and light commercial field.

Some of the questions that you will need the knowledge to answer would be for the proper bonding methods for a magnetic resonance imaging machine, the inside of the room and all equipment involved with the process.
Do you have knowledge of this?
If the answer is yes then you now have you a chance to do some advertising and tell us.

Precisely. As I said earlier this could easily get into direct conflict with the rules. Granted, unions don't have nearly the same power and influence in the South that they do here in the Northeast. But I can't imagine the rules are any different in other parts of the country. This may not be direct competition but it could be indirectly assisting the competition.


-Peter

As a licensed EC in your area, I'll chime in with my point of view. First I don't have any problems with non licensed, qualified, electricians doing limited side work like fixture installs and other minor work. I did it myself and I'm not going to tell you not to just because I now have a license. However, I really don't know what the market would be for a consultant like you are talking about. I've never had a customer hire a consultant to look over the work before hiring us to do the work, with the exception of a presale home inspection. Are you planning to get liability insurance? I hope so, because when you recommend something as an consultant, you accept some liability that your recommendation is correct. I'm not sure without being a licensed EC or EE if you can get real insurance. I would ask you the following questions:

What exactly is the service you will provide?
What are your qualifications?
Who do you expect to be your customers?
How are you going to find these customers? (marketing)

I'm not trying to be condescending, just curious as to your exact thinking and plans. I actually admire your entrepreneurial spirit.

Guys,
Let's not get onto the union thing again?!!.

Trumpy -

What happened to the neat smiley face and banner that you had? (grin)

Steve

GA might be on track for something...but....

From what I see on the Nome Inspector web sites, there is a need for someone with real electrical knowledge to look things over.

Yet- and GA, you'll have to trust me on this- someone beginning their third year of apprenticeship often feels that they're "almost there," that it's just a matter of putting in time. Funny thing is, by the end of the fourth year, these same folks are in awe of what they have yet to learn!

I don't doubt that these guys are good- it's just that there's a lot more to the trade. At two years your exposure to both the range of the trade, as well as the many different types of construction, is quite limited.

A final problem is simply one of age. Folks tend to respect the opinion of an older person far more readily than that of someone who reminds them of their grandchildren.

Usually when a home inspector is referring a concern they are recomending someone who is licensed for a legal opinion.

The insurance policy consultants carry is usual E&O "errors and omissions". To get this insurance, you submit what is essentially a resume outlining your work experience and the carrier decides if you're experienced, knowledgeble enough to insure. I think at this point in your life, you'd have a difficult time doing that.

I also don't see anybody selecting you out of a phone book to help them figure out which electrician to pick out of the phone book. Hiring you is as much a gamble (in the eyes of the consumer) as hiring an electrician so why not skip the middle man and just hire the electrician?

Ga, Your consulting avenue could be a great thing, and you could make alot of money at it.

However, if that is what you desire, I would dump the avenue you are taking now. Get away from the unions and get yourself in school to be an EE or something with a degree in Electrical Engineering.

I'll bet there are small and medium based EC in your area, who need help in taking on bigger jobs, but don't know how to do them, or who don't know where to turn for help. Some firms around here do just that. They will do all the calcs for you, spec out wiring, switchgears, ect, for a price. They don't call themselves consultants, they are engineering firms.

As stated above, the market for consultants may not be in the resi end of this industry. But the commercial and industrial end is where you should find more money.

All my opinion mind you....


Dnk........

I don't see how you can consult on a specific trade without a lic in that trade.
Do you honestly think you know everything there is to know about electrical work after a limited time in the field? I'm not trying to get down on you just offering my opinion.

GA76Apprentice,
Who would your customers be? I know from my perspective I would have to consider the added cost of the service that you propose to provide and would had to convince me of the "value added" that you could provide.
What it all boils down to is that you have to be compensated for your time and we must justify what your service would cost us with respect to its benefits.
Dave T

I thought about something similar, basically advising homeowners on their own work but you have to be very careful not to actually touch anything or you have become a contractor. The real show stopper is the fact that they are doing their own work because they don't want to pay anyone so they wouldn't be willing to pay much for advice either. You can't start your car for much less than $100 and your time is worth something. "Homey" is going to expect you to hold his hand for days and he will want to give you $20.

To all:

I am really surprised at the # of people who came out to give their opinions on this. I feel special, in a sort of way.

I do feel I have a good knowledcge of what can and should be done in a residential setting. I really don't think anyone would hire me to work in a Hospital setting on a MRI machine or anwhere in the general vacinity. But if so the proper information would be found in Article 517 of the NEC. Possibly 517.13 (B)?

Anyway.
I know I have alot to learn, but at the same time I feel I have something to give to others as well.

I appreciate all the comments so far and welcome many more.

BTW: As an apprentice I am not responsible to pay dues until I a) get ready to join or b) Turn out after the final test of my apprenticeship at which point membership is required.


Thanks

Philip

GA76,
I think you are letting yourself open for a huge liability problem. Anyone hiring you would be led to assume that you are a professional in your trade. As such any recommendations you give must be accurate. If you give someone advice and they do the work like you say and someones house burns down, there won't bw a corner of the world small enough to hide in where a lawyer won't be able to hunt you down. That said, if you are going to give advice like a lighting layout or some harmless electrical ideas like a decorator would give, I see no harm. But it never stops there. I'd love to give electrical advice, but I've only got 31 years in as a General Contractor, not an Electrical Contractor. So I don't! I only give advice like I'm giving now.

But I am a professional in my trade and as such I would only give proper advice that I KNOW is right.

I can see where a liability issue may come into play, but if I tell you to hook the green or bare wire to the green screw, the white wire to the silver screw and the black (or other color) wire to the brass screw then what is wrong with that. Or if I tell you your circuit is overloaded and needs to be upgraded or a new dedicated circuit ran. Where is the problem with that?

General knowledge for everyone here, but there may be a need for it in my local market place.


The Big box stores have guys that work in the Electrical dept. and give terrible info. Last year, I'm walking around one of these stores and overhear a conversation between a clerk and a lady customer. She was doing some "footwork" for her husband and evidently he was a DIY. She wanted to know if she could add any more circuits to their panel. They were re-doing their basement. She had a detailed list of the breakers in her panel and what was placed on each one. (Impressive to say the least}
Well the clerk looks at it right quick and adds them all up and says "You can't add anything else because you already have 385 amps and it's only a 200 amp panel" He then proceeded to tell her more garbage.
Anyway after he was done and she started to walk away I stopped her and explained that everything does not pull a constant load at all times and that her house is perfectly fine. I then told her it would probably be fine to add things to the open spaces, but to have someone check her panel with an ammeter before and after they were done.

Now this was FREE info I gave her. Nothing was received in return, but she had also just learned what she needed to know. Now if she had listened to the clerk, they would all still be confused.

I am going to see if there is a market for this type of information. If not, then so be it, but at least I can say I tried.

Quote:

"BTW: As an apprentice I am not responsible to pay dues until I a) get ready to join or b) Turn out after the final test of my apprenticeship at which point membership required."

As best as i remember, here in Montana if you are enrolling in a union apprenticeship, then you join the union right off the bat - there was an initiation fee and then regular payment of dues began - how else to fund five years of training?

My cheap 55% of JW wages do a pretty good bit, plus I am already paying assessment fees and the such.

For some reason though it is not required here in Atlanta. I would gladly join if it wasn't for the "voluntary" death benefits that need to be paid. Most of the time you never know how many members will pass on.

I also don't want to join and then get in a financial bind and not be able to pay. They say they work with you, but only for so long. I plan on joining somewhere near the middle of my 4th year.

International benefits don't start until fifth year.

[This message has been edited by GA76Apprentice (edited 10-04-2005).]

GA.76, One quick question. How will you know that my circuit is over loaded or that I need a service up-grade. The minute that you start to pull receptacles and check out the circuit, you are doing electrical work. I can't see the benefit of advice from someone that is not allowed to check out the system. On a normal service call your tools are out in the first 5 to 10 minutes. You will not be allowed tools because you are a consultant. You could ask the home or business owner to do the test or device removal and installation. If you stay in school and log your time at your job you can test for your license in two years. Why not just wait. I'm sure there are a couple of things that you can still learn before becoming an EC. Learn as much about business as you can to include sales. The technical part is only half the job. Good Luck.