I must be moving up in the company because I was handed my first completly green apprentice today. I wasn't really sure what to do with him (besides have him unload and load the truck.) I am not sure how to break him into doing more important things. I am kind of neurotic on how I like things done so it makes things a little harder for me.
I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to teach and make the most of someone who doesn't know anything? I think that I will be learning more than he is going to learn in this whole experience.

I have found the best way to break in a helper is to use him as a go-for, he will learn the tools and parts and you will learn His attitude. I learned with the mistakes thrown at me you cannot do that now days. Willingness to learn is the most important thing IMO Rod

Teaching, is not a repetive motion exercise... For the completely green, you need to throw some more dialog into the mix. i.e. "I want you to do (This), and I want you to do it this way.... And this.... is why I want you to do it this way...." Otherwise you get a robot that can't think for himself. I have had a few... And, all you have to do, is get used to describing everything. (One should also bear in mind that not everyone does things like you, if he works with other people, so if you know what those things are... describe those in detail.) Dare I say it, like you have said, you will learn more out of this.

It is extremely unwise to waste his time and yours by using Mr. Green as a go-fer. By the time you have explained what it is that he must get you could've retrieved it many times over.

Start with a total buddy system and with him not doing much more than listening to you as you go through your tasks.

His first hours and days are filled with high risk. He is probably 50 times more likely to injure himself than a seasoned apprentice -- on a per minute basis. So cram safety meatings into his schedule EVERY day until all of the basics are instilled. Your overriding priority is to get him safe first -- forget about his output.

Don't even dream about him making your life easier for quite some time.

Keep Mr. Green within your eyesight -- just like you would a two year old -- I'm not kidding. With enough time and apprentices you'll have endless stories of astounding idoicies to pass around, yourself.

You'll be building your appraisal -- continously -- from the first moment. Be mindful that many great performers can be stressed -- typically the best are introverts -- and may look weak at first. And you'll have troopers that talk a great game and dress the part who turn out to be problem children -- pick your flavor.

The earliest tasks should be buddy oriented like wire pulls, manual trenching -- get it?

Then move Mr. Green to MC/Romex roping -- staging VERY common materials. Do not, do not I say, have him chasing down small or occasional items such as LBs, fixtures.

Constantly expand his area of knowledge by lecturing him about the installation as it proceeds; the why and the how.

Stay totally away from circuit make-up or any other 'knowledge work'. You don't want him doing anything beyond 'mechanical work' until he is seasoned.

Trust his work -- but verify it. When he is not there dive into his work to check for quality. It is impossible to relate the number of wannabee electrians who couldn't repeat their own work. (!) Just because he got it right once doesn't mean that he will continue to do so.

Be prepared to deal with many failures. Don't take it personally.

I try to find out WHAT any apprentice knows up front.... their knowledge of tools mechanical abilities, you need to know how well they listen
Ask about their hobbies,...or families.
Take them everywhere you go, explain the scope of the job,not just a small task.

Don't complain about a job "rules"

Show them the
"proper" way to do anything, tool safety, ladder safety, job safety ,personal safety, teach by example (resist trying to show-off how fast or quickly YOU can do something) ..you can show them your way later!
make them responsible for something, ....keeping the tools in the gang boxes organized ....making sure the chargers are all back at the end if the day..sweeping up the break area.

You will need to think before you speak, if they screw something up you tasked them with, you must be sure you were clear with your instructions ! You should accept the fact that some things will not be to your liking. Did you check on their progress or did you wait until they were done?

be a teacher, not a pal..that will come later,

... Great topic,guys,...I've often wondered what was the best approach,and still keep the prospective apprentice's attention,..I've seen the "newly aquired" lose interest fast,and soon you'll get the "eye-rolling" if you chastise them or send them to the truck once too often,and don't forget the 10 minute walk to the truck,stopping to answer his cell phone on the way,and coming back with the wrong stuff,because he's probably got A.D.D.*(most 18-20 yr olds I've come into contact with have it),and couldn't pay attention to you while you were telling him in the first place..Then they give YOU the attitude...

* A.D.D. = Attention Deficit Disorder

Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 09-27-2005).]

Attic Rat,

....... as far as the attitude goes....there is always a pipe pile that is in the wrong place !

There is always the "attitude adjustment tools".

Dnk...

... LOL Togol,yeah,or that bin of scrap copper wire that needs stripping,.. or worse yet,...the abominable bottomless bucket of screws and other assorted hardware that nobody ever sorts out,.. could prove fatal to most of todays apprentices!! I'd think that would be the equivalent of "30 days in the hole"...
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 09-27-2005).]

.....oh yeah Attic Rat, like you said ,some of these kids think they should be..for some goofy reason...
respected......oh its too funny. I wasn't exactly the model cub myself ,and hopefully scameron has a good App to work with

BTW Attic Rat, that is a very nice picture

Thanks for all the great tips guys! The prevailing training method in our shops is the ride their butt boot camp. But it doesn't seem like it has been too effective. Sometimes I guess you have to get loud but not on a daily basis because eventually they quit listening.

togol,

"....... as far as the attitude goes....there is always a pipe pile that is in the wrong place !"

I had an over eager greenie that had no idea of level, square or straight, who developed a complex after I demoted him from from "working in reverse", to solely material handling, afer he got mouthy about it too. (Something he didn't like too much.) 7000' of 1/2" pipe (Which was REALLY in the wrong place, they were laying floor...) up one flight of stairs put me into a 'Comp case. Lucky for the company, he bragged about his new job, he was going to start the next day, to some loyal employees he was stupid enough to think sympathized with him.

Word to the wise though, as you may not be so lucky to catch a scammer with a bad additude. Verbal warning, written warning X2, Sac 'em! Legal beagle!

Failure to comply with the companies standard of work after a designated period = counsel, and document.

Bad additude = counsel, and document.

Late, or leave early = counsel, and document.

CYA = counsel, and document.

If someone is willing to learn, I'll even climb in the attic with them, just to prove I'm not having them do anything I wouldn't do myself.

Just not interested... = counsel, and document.

e57, the kids that come out are on Probation for 6 months, and after that , if they survive, they begin their indentured apprenticeship ! Usually , by then , the bad ones are gone, and those that stay get their first raise , and the really lucky ones get transferred to another shop. The system works pretty good...the majority of the disciplining is handled by the training director , who is just a phone call away, something ALL of the cubs understand completely ........

Yeah, sometimes a bad apple slips thru the cracks , but they end up quitting

For the first time, last winter I had a helper / trainee. What a learning expereince!

First of all, it is quite a challenge to organize the work for two people- the helper doesn't like standing around any more than you like seeing him standing around!

There might be some issues regarding what is expected in terms of starting time, etc. The new guy truly may have just fallen off the turnip truck, and not understand that "start time" is the time you start work- not the time you pull into the parking lot! Here it is especially important to lead by example.

Some things that are obvious to you may be completely foreign to him. You'll probably have to explain some simple things several times; quite often, it was my explanation that was lacking- not the helpers' willingness to learn!

Try also to remember what it was like for you....replacing a pair of pliers might be a PITA for you; but it can be a major money issue for the new guy.

I tried to show my helper what the overall plan was, rather than just saying "do this." I wanted him to see how it all fit together. I also let him have a taste of enough of the things I was doing, so he could see that I wasn't just letting him do all the hard stuff!

Finally, there is the matter of responsibility. If the guy messes up, it is still your responsibility. Sure, you can be mad at him, and have him fix it- but he is not there for you to blame every error on. You can delegate the task- but not the responsibility.

Prepare to have your heart broken. I'd like to say that my helper is becoming a fine sparky- but, unfortunately, his after-work activities have put him in prison for the next 3 to 9 years!

When I get green help, my training method is simple. I treat/train them the way I would like to be treated/trained. That means that I am not their to play the recruit-Drill Instructor game. When I started out I wanted to learn and do my fair share and I was very fortunate to be put with a journeyman who was willing to teach (some of the old schoolers didn't share that attitude). I appreciated the patience he showed me when I screwed up and how he allowed me to screwup on some things just so that I would learn the benefits of doing the work his way which in the end was the right way. When I was in the IBEW (I was already an experienced Journeyman by then and didn't go through the apprenticeship program) I saw how many of the apprentices were treated...I personally would not have put up with it.
Anyway, I have trained many green helpers and did like my first trainer did. I would tell them what I wanted them to do and how to do it the proper way. For example: I had one guy that I told to bend some 1/2" emt, told him how to measure it, about the deduct and let him bend a piece. After we got rid of that piece of scrap, I told him about maintaing foot pressure. The next bend came out fine and for the next few bends he made, as he started to bend the pipe I heard him say "foot pressure" as he made the bend. He soon got to be very good at bending pipe and we worked real well together.
This method of training has worked well for me...does it work on all trainee's? No. But for those that it does work on, I don't mind working "with" them at all.
Just my 2 cents worth!

Congrats to WhiteRock and Renosteinke! For the rest of you, is it too long ago for you to remember how it feels to be TheGreenOne?
This is not the military; this is not the NFL. We are training craftsmen, not snipers or sackers.

[This message has been edited by Tripp (edited 09-29-2005).]

To quote Tesla:
Look, look back on your own apprenticeship and think what was bad about it.
Don't repeat history!.
No matter how you want to take out all of your Bosses things out on them, refrain.
I've trained 3 Electrical and 2 Lines Apprentices in my career and I did not train them by giving them the worst job on the site, that is the quickest way to turn an apprentice away from you.
Electricians just aren't trained that way any more.
I start my apprentices off with the simple things and gradually build up to more difficult tasks, but at the same time, instilling the basics like cleaning up after themselves and the like.
One of my apprentices was one of the finalists in the Apprentice of the Year in 2002, out of 320 apprentices, he made the last 5.
One other thing, NEVER forget where you came from as an Apprentice, I still use a broom to this day and will always be willing to help.
And one last thing, you are only as good as your training or the guy that trained you, you are after all trained to his standards.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 09-29-2005).]

I was that apprentice.
Here's what I remember.

1. Don't knock 2 hammer heads together. I dunno either!
2. Don't do what I do, do what I tell you to do. There's the wrong way and there's my way.
3. Don't saw up firewood with the Master's best panel saw, unless you like Hospital food.
4. All the crap jobs are yours.
5. Oi! Yeti! Get yer 'air cut!
6. I know everything, you know nowt!
7. Oi! Mattress-face, how's yer spots lookin'?
8. You idiot, that's coming out of your wages! ( Yeah, right, on £3.50 a week!!)
9. If I tell you, you'll know as much as I do! aka; Can you keep a secret? So can I!!
10. If you ain't got nothing better to do, go and make the bloody tea.

And for the first year that's all you did. Watch. Listen. Make the bloody tea.

Alan

Alan I dis-agree with the first one:
QWhen you have a house on fire that is the quickest way to wedge off the twist-nails.

I think the reason given was that the hammer-head faces are hardened and the shock might fracture pieces off and go in your eye. Or, worse, the Foreman's tea-mug.
Pedantic really, I only had one hammer.

Alan

Tripp, when I was green, I was in the military, and believe me, I don't treat people like that....

The Best way to teach a new apprentice is to treat them like an adult. Give them responsibility and hold them accountable.I think the one thing to remember when training a new apprentice is to remember
back to when you were the new apprentice. What did you hate and what did you find helpful ? Yelling and screaming are not the way. Just explain what your doing and WHY . Preach safety every chance you can. Ask questions to see if they understand what you are telling them. I also encourage them to read about what we're doing in the code. Let them do something beside chase parts. Let them make mistakes ( small ones) then explain why it is not done that way. It's like teaching kids to walk, you have to let them fall down sometime. Remind them that you won't ask them to do anything you won't do ! I have trained quite a few apprentice's like this and it seems to work.

How or what would you do with a guy that has been mr green for two years and seems to not get it? my dillema is he shows up early he never complain's about the job! how long do I babysit this situation before I cut him loose? He really wants to be an electrician.

My training started out with this,a GOOD apprentice and a bad aprentice Santa Claus and the Easter bunny chasing a hundred dollar bill down the street! who's going to catch it? answer; the bad apprentice all other's are a figmant of your Imagination!

[This message has been edited by shooter (edited 09-30-2005).]

Ken, (luckyshadow)
Very good point mate!.
If you want people to act like adults, treat them as such.
I remember being on a building site a couple of years back hooking up a Temp. supply and the Electrician and his Apprentice were there running the U/G Mains (Service) cable through a trench and in through the concrete foundations of the house.
Anyway, the Apprentice must have been pulling the cable incorrectly (if you can actually do that) but his Boss really hit the high note and started carrying on, ripped the cable out of the young fella's hands and proceeded to show him how it was done.
Trench was full of water from rain the night before.
The guy must have tripped on a stone in the bottom of the trench and fell in the water.
It was funny to watch from the top of a pole.
My point is, don't stand someone aside and show them "how it is done", you only learn by doing.
Being shouted and screamed at only turns me off, not sure about you. GRRR

Not every electrician should be the one to teach apprentices. I can proudly say I have taught apprentices that have gone on to be foremen and licensed master electricians. I would like to think I am partly responsible for their success. I always try to get the apprentice to start holding himself/herself to a higher level of professionalism. I do this by example. I will explain to them that I hold myself to the same higher level also. I do my installs per the NEC no cheating allowed ! I will not allow those on my jobs to cheat. If it's not right it comes out !
I feel I was quite lucky when I started in this trade 23 years ago. I went to work for a guy who was a stickler for details. No Cheating allowed. do it right the first time type of person. He would also stop what ever he was doing and answer questions or explain things to me. He showed me how to do things , explained why, then had me do them. The big thing is he was not a screamer! Always calm . He is still doing electrical work today and I am still in contact with him, I consider him a mentor and friend for life ! This is the approach I use to teach my apprentices.
Ken Horak
(luckyshadow)

[This message has been edited by luckyshadow (edited 10-01-2005).]

This is the heartbreaker.

Best advice is, start from the top. What are the basics that he would need to get tattooed before he'll be able to remember them?

The best bet, from the word go, IMO, is honest feedback from the start. Then, once you progress further, you can calmly and honestly address the "not getting it", identify the problems, and coach him to tackle them one by one.

He may never be an all-star, but to quote Jules from Pulp Fiction: "Personality goes a long way." A work ethic and a desire to continue to grow, despite a lack of knack, will let him continue in the business. There's no shame in him achieving small success at low rank and staying put, if he derives satisfaction from the job he does.