I was wondering what you guys charge per opening. What would you charge to finish a basement with 86 linear feet of walls, 6 recess lights, 2 keyless, 2 3ways, a dedicated line for a freezer(all the way at the other end of the basement from the panel)?

I was thinking $1565. There are a couple of 3 ways in the mechanical room, and a single pole in the freezer room.

Depends on your location & 'market'. Usually, the guys here prefer to avoid pricing numbers.

In this area (NJ) you may be considered as 'giving the ranch away' (IMHO)

John

I am in central CT.

... Alot,... but usually the morning after I get to feeling a little guilty...

...(sorry I just couldn't resist)..
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 09-03-2005).]

That not a bad price. Also from CT it is around the some as I would charge.

Clydesdale,I'm in CT as well,sounds about right to me. Are you going to put the outlets or lighting on their own circuits or utilize existing circuits. Do you have to travel far to the job? Do you need to add any smokes,phone or CATV? Just wondering these obviously add to the cost.

It's about 20 min drive. I don't need to add smokes. I will be pulling 3 new circuits. One for lighting, one for receptacles, and a dedicated line for a freezer. The panel is right there for 2 of the circuits, and the freezer curcuit is all the way at the other end of the basement. As far as the TV and phone goes, I am waiting fro an answer from the GC. But these will probably be so easy to run it's pathetic. The feeds are right there.

do you usually charge the same for tv/data/phone as line voltage openings?

"In this area (NJ) you may be considered as 'giving the ranch away'"
____________________________________________

Around here that would be a handyman price, or a price from a maintance electrician, doing non-permited moonlighting work.

I don't see how anyone can price a job using per opening as a basis, it is nothing more then dart board pricing, a good guess, win some, loose some.

Sq foot method may work for production jobs, where conditions are predicted, or sq ft is good for estimating a budget figure, but to price a job with either method, is shoot from the hip pricing.

A good way to estimate these jobs, is to walk the job, and note the site conditions, then using good job data like previous job actuals, figure the time required to install this job, with what ever conditions exist, and don't forget to include your planning time, and the time it takes to schedule, and the time to return for finish work, and time to fill out and file the permit, in the area i work, your price would be ok, for just the rough work, but every area has it's local economy to consider, and each EC has varied labor, overhead, and profit, so there is no standard cost for any job.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 09-05-2005).]

Clydesdale, I usually charge around 125.00 for a phone or a catv run. I run dedicated lines to each location and use a punch down block for phones, (CAT 5 and no orange wire nuts) I only use snap seal connectors on rg 6.I guess this is all irrelevant but it's what I do.

Here's how I figured it...

10 outlets at $40.00 each = $400.00
6 hi-hats at $150.00 each = $900.00
2 keyless fixtures at $50.00 each = $100.00
2, 3-way switches at $50.00 each = $100.00
1 single pole switch at $40.00 each = $40.00
2, 15 amp homeruns at $125.00 each = $250.00
1, 20 amp homerun at $145.00 each = $145.00

Total = $1935.00

"don't see how anyone can price a job using per opening as a basis, it is nothing more then dart board pricing, a good guess, win some, loose some."
Price per opening is the best way I have found to estimate over the years. How would you "walk" a blueprint? My price per opening varies with the wiring method and materials specified. For instance:
NM cable and NM device boxes in wood frame construction have a set per opening price.
NM cable and metallic devices in wood frame have another price. MC cable and metal boxes in wood frame have yet another price. Steel stud construction changes the per opening price and so does the use of conduit. Some specs call for EMT but do not allow 4 sq boxes w/mud rings for devices. All of the specs figure into the per opening price. Once you have worked all of these different variations for several years you can come up with a per opening pricing formula but it will still vary as NM cable prices wander from $110.00 per 1000 to $225.00 per 1000 in 90 days time.

Interesting how alot of people do things a different way. Some guys break it down so small.

For my input, I do it this way.

1. How many days will it take, rough and finish?
2. Materials X Markup.
3. Permits & inspections.

Lk, has an intersting point. How many of us seen a basment done with ferring strips glued on block walls? Or metal studs used as framing. The cheap plastic boxes won't work there, so without "walking" the job, you opened yourself up for headache.
And on the flip side, if you've done one basement in your area, and the neighbor down the street wants something similar, then you know what to expect.

I think what I am trying to convey here is, that experience in your niche area will guide you how to price things.


Dnk....

I've been using per opening prices for many years. It has worked out quite well. These prices get tweaked and can get bumped up depending on job site conditions. Better than sq ft pricing because it takes into account what the openings that are actually getting installed. Its weakness is in jobsite conditions. But if you note things like that a dedicated circuit that has to be run a long distance, you can adjust that number specifically.

There is a little bit of "dartboard" in any pricing method. To predict what the job will actually cost is every bit of predicting the future. It is really no more than an educated guess. The educated part is the part that keeps you from losing the house, whether all at once or brick at a time.

When pricing something I have not done before, I think through every detail of the job and guess how many man-days it will take and throw a little bit more on for problems. But I often think how risky this business can feel when you imagine all the things that could go wrong.

It is ok to use any method per opening, sq ft. or, actuals, as was stated, all these methods have good points and bad, but the important thing in working any old work job, is to check the conditions, for example, say you quote the per opening of $120 for an outlet, then you find the home is a split level with a slab, then you go to the basement, and find they have closed walls and sheetrock finished ceiling, now for new work, if your working from a print, and have a detailed print, then you would have all the information to do a detailed estimate, and per opening would be a risky move, when you have all the information to do an accurate estimate.
If i have all the information, i have a better chance to make the job profitable,
over the years i noticed those that depended on per opening and sq ft. methods, had problems controling the job costs, and many times, they had losses on these jobs.




[This message has been edited by LK (edited 09-05-2005).]

Guys:
"Around here that would be a handyman price, or a price from a maintance electrician, doing non-permited moonlighting work."

LK forgot a few factors:
Probably no business insurance (liability, workers comp, etc).
Also, IF the handyman gets caught; the fine could be $2000 for no permit; plus possible legal charges from the Board of Examiners.

AS I said originally, pricing, no matter what method you use, is a "personal" thing, and everyone has their own methods.

John

Thanks everyone for the input, I really appreciate it.

I forgot to add the home runs in there. my new total is $1960. thanks for reminding me.

[This message has been edited by Clydesdale (edited 09-05-2005).]

Shockme77, do you have trouble getting that price per can, I usually do 70.00. CT guys if I am too low let me know. I don't want to be the lowball guy. With costs of business these days I would like to raise my rates on things such as this but I am not sure if the market will bear it. Any thoughts (especially from CT guys would be greatly appreciated). I know this is the $64,000 question but I had to ask.

"I am not sure if the market will bear it."

_____________________________________________

The market is bearing it pretty well as builders are asking, and getting $350 for recess light as an extra.

i think walking the job is necessary and whereever i can i do.
The way i do it is as simple
flatrate.period.works for me on every job as long as I estimate the time needed right,which is on me when I walk the job
flatrate is a great system
and yes i agree again with LK for the posted work the price seems to be really low
In my opinion it is really time to update rates for electrical work to todays standards.same as every plumber did roofer carpenter etc etc.

I hope some of you live near me the next time I need some work done.

Question:How many of you really know your true real break even number plus profit? What your price should reflect is the true cost of running your business.

We should all put as much effort into knowing how to successfully run a business as we do about how to do electrical work, the NEC and new products.

We are always so proud of our electrical knowledge and workmanship but then feel ashamed to ask for a top buck to do it. Why?

We cant run a top notch company, do top notch work, give top notch pay and benefits while charging low low prices.

This type of thinking has hurt our industry and our ability to recruiting the best teenagers from high school from wanting to become electricans. What kid wants to grow up, bust his butt and recieve 35k plus crappy benefits doing electrical work the rest of his life.

We should all want to live and pay ourself and our employees as well as those we serve?

You nailed it Ed.

""What your price should reflect is the true cost of running your business."""

So true...

So if a guy, who takes out 3 or 4 full page adds in every phone book in town, with 30 or so trucks, gas bills, overhead, ect.. has to have a huge amount of overhead. That overhead cost has to be turned over to the customer some how.

The littler guy who doesn't have the advertising bill, fewer gas costs, ect.., does most work by "word of mouth", he can charge a substantial amount less, do the same if not better quality work, and make himself a very comfortable living.

Somehow, I would think the guys that do take out 3-4 page adds, have to find alot of new customers all the time.

As Redsy stated: slow and steady wins the race....


Dnk.........