A couple of post back I had posted wiring problem,well today I finally solved it.Will try to describe and hope it makes sense.Oone wire on 1 breaker another on another breaker and the red on another breaker and spliced into a wire on one of the first breakers ,along in this garbage is one grounded conductor tied to one of the hots and another grounded conductor tied at outlet and both going back to the neutral bar ,the red breaker stayed tripped because of short but would feed across to other breakers and you guys think this is confusing to you ,then you should be here .
NOW for the next project I have to find this : 3 phase machine turn breaker off to it and one leg still stays hot but kills another machine and but 2 of the legs on it stay hot and now tell me you wish me luck and how proud of me all of you are ha ha

Doc,
This new problem is simple. Breaker 1 has 2 hots going to machine 1 and one hot to machine 2. Breaker 2 has 2 hots to machine 2 and one to machine 1.
Don(resqcapt19)

I'll put my money on that Cap, trace 'em back..

Thanks guys the real problem is finding which panel they are in there are 25 sub panels in this building and there is 3 different services these panels are scattered from one end to thge other and hardly anything marked and no guarntee that these wires are in same panel
Am I having fun yet ? ha ha

Doc,
You need to get a circuit tracer. I have an older Greenlee #2007 that would work great in finding your problem. There are other brands that will do the same thing. They only cost $150-$200. Sounds like the labor alone to find the source of this problem may cost more than the tracer.
Don(resqcapt19

I do got a circuit tracer and a good one,have been talking to MFG. tek dept,the tracer is very forgiving, but not even it can over come complete screw ups.It has been a lot of help on some of the circuits.You would have to be here to see this.they didn't even run the grounded conductors out of the same panel that the hot is running out of in some casses

Doc,
If you hook the tracer up between the one conductor that stays hot at machine #1 and the conduit for this machine, you should have no trouble locating the breaker that this wire is connected to.
Don(resqcapt19)

I agree with Don.
I've always heard that it is important that you use a ground (not a neutral) when tracing.

Don and Bill,the advise on hooking to conduit is a great idea but they have in some casses used the conduit as the grounded conductor and the conduit has to be metal all the way back to box and not have a piece of water hose somewhere in the middle of it . Some of the runs have to be using the building itself as the neutral because the conduit is broken .THIS HAS BEEN A REAL WAKA WAKA WHOA BABY DON'T TPOUCH THAT IT WILL BITE type of time HA HA HA . THANKS FOR THE TIPS EVERYONE

doc,

So why don't We have pictures?