Can't get a straight answer on this one it seems like so many people use rules of thumb or take what someone else told them as "the code" . I have an 86 meter service to install in an apartment. all the meters are in the basement along with the main switch. All of the apartments are fed with sub panels. I would like to feed them with Aluminum SER. Inspector says we must use copper after the main switch. I cant find that in the NEC or the NYS residential code. Any thoughts. What do you do in your state???

A couple of our municipal codes in So CA:

• No Aluminum at all (mostly near the ocean)
• No Aluminum #6 or smaller
• No Aluminum #4 or smaller

Is there anything anywhere that says NO AL after the main switch? Remember I'm in NY Long Island.. crazy place

I did copper on first few houses I did (Meter to Main) thinking I was doing quality stuff finally the inspector told me use the alum. and it's ok 310.15(b)(6) like every one else does make pocket some more money for myself. and the code says AL. service entrance cable is ok but if your inspector says no alum. after main, thats the way it is, no arguing with the MAN. the only place I would even consider Alum. is for a elec. Range but never have, guess I'll go look that up right now if really could.

Here in North Carolina we can use aluminum for the service connections as well as heavy loads such as A/C sub-panels, ranges, dryers and so forth. I did an apartment complex in Charleston, South Carolina and the local juristiction says no aluminum in any building. Must be a local ruling in your area.

Unless your inspector can show you a local amendment to the NEC, I think he's wrong.(310.2)(310.5)(310.14)
We have a local amendment not allowing Alluminum, that dates back to when alluminum was burning up at terminations.

Can the MAN make it rain and snow too? In MA we have rules. They apply to everyone, even the inspectors. Here, if it does not exist in writing and has not been adopted into law, it is not an enforcable rule. Don't just roll over and play dead because an inspector tells you to.

Electricmanscott quote:
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Can the MAN make it rain and snow too?
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the issue is not rain and snow.
but if SER ALUM. is ok and what the inspector told him. here in Colorado the inspectors are state inspectors, and whinning and crying with the inspector only going to cause yourself grief, and if the inspector's telling everyone the same thing then everyone's in the same boat.
and like Redogs wrote and looked myself there is no mention of not being able to use alum.,, BUT you will also find that if the local authority (jurisdiction) says otherwise that is what you will have to follow.


[This message has been edited by highvoltageguy (edited 03-12-2005).]

There are leaders and there are followers. While I would not say I am a "Leader" I am absolutely not a follower. Where I work the rules are the rules. The inspectors are bound to follow them as written. Some rules are ambiguous and can be interpreted in different ways, others are black and white. Either way there are no rules that contain the words "Because I said so". So if an inspector makes that claim he can look over his shoulder and he will see I am not following.

Who exactly is the AHJ the NEC, the State, The town the inspector. Example the New York Board of Fire Underwiters which is an inspection company had a rule that is not in the code. It says no receptacles in closets. Now I think it is a good idea anyway but not in the NEC. you could not get an inspection passed with a receptacle in the closet period. So who is the AHJ in this case it sounds like it is the inspector. I'm confused

Quote:
"if it does not exist in writing and has not been adopted into law, it is not an enforcable rule."
___________________________________________

That's it
If it is a local rule, it will be in writing, ask for a copy of the rule.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 03-12-2005).]

I love to argue with the "man"
it seems the "man" needs learnin on occasion.
I don't see some AHJs as beeing more code knowlegeable than I. But so fare as pissen the "man" off it probably not the best thing to do.
Ya alu is fine with the nec. But i'm from the west coast and know nothing of NY.

If I think an inspector is wrong, the first thing I do is ask him/her to show my the written rule that he is faulting me for. If he cannot show you or refuses to do so talk to his boss. Inspectors have to follow the adopted code with any state/local admendments.
Like Scott said " I told you so" is not good enough.
Have found that most inspectors can and will show you the rule and are decent about it if approached the right way.
Time for the pissing contest if the inspector acts in an unprofessional way.
Have found few inspectors with ego problems and thier bosses usually do not like to have to deal with a problem inspector very long.
You can take the discussion as far as the state/local rules (appeals, boards, etc.) allow then into court if necessary.
You will have to decide if,when and how far to pursue any arguement. Some times it is just not worth the hassle and bad feelings.

If there is no local ammendment to prevent alum ser use, then go find an attorney who can send a letter to the inspector with his letterhead, that reminds the guy that he will need to prove his point in court unless he desists. That should do the trick.

Better yet, if he is wrong, get it in writing and go ahead and install the copper, then send him the bill for the change. If he is enforcing rules above and beyond the code, then he is liable for the change order.

Ask the inspector politely to give you the code reference that prohibits you from using the SER. Explain to him that you have researched the code and can't find it and as you want to stay within the code, you need a reference. If he can't give you one, continue with the installation. If he rejects you, he has to cite the portion of the code that prohibits you from using the SER. Just remember to keep it on a professional basis. If you back him into a corner, he's going to bite you!

Hi,
The statement that if you live near the ocean and can not use Aluminum wiring is baseless and most of all RIDICULOUS! So lets see...ocean, no aluminum? WRONG. Certain types of aluminum are designed for use IN SALTWATER. I know of a plate of 1/4" 6061 aluminum that has been submerged in a vat of SALT water for over 40 years and is still shiny. I will look it up and post it here.

Lets not forget about Scott petersons boat that he used in san francisco bay to dump his wife and kid in...it was an ALUMINUM BOAT!

I guess there are no boats with aluminum mast or parts out there in lala land either?

Next we wont be able to use plastic because it could melt.

How many miles of Aluminum conduit do you suspect is installed at all of those refineries out there in CA? I myself have installed several THOUSAND FEET of it in KENAI ALASKA and other places. I know that a lot of Paper mills are going to PVC coated conduit but there is still a lot of aluminum conduit being used as well as ALUMINUM FLEX.

I guess there are no aluminum road signs or aluminum overhead lines near the ocean in CA either?

I could go on and on providing other examples but I think you get my drift..the moon is NOT MADE OF CHEESE either!

The reason an inspector or whomever is telling you that you can't use aluminum feeders is not educated and sounds dangerous.

First you have to go and specifically buy a ALL COPPER bus on any panel you may install and very few do not have ANY aluminum in them.

Second it is NOT the inspectors JOB to specify what materials you use unless he can produce a LAW that says you must use one part over another.

There are MILLIONS of Aluminum feeders and branch circuits in use today and some that have been in use for decades.

Aluminum is SAFE IF it is installed CORRECTLY.

This reminds me of another post on this site where someone was trying to convince us that OXYGEN was a HAZARDOUS FLAMMABLE gas and all equipment should ahve been explosion proof becasue of a oxygen tank!

Otherwise it would be in the code.

Let us know what happens.

regards

Greg


[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 03-14-2005).]

Do you have a Construction Board of Appeals? Here in NJ if you don't like what "the man" says, then you can challenge him in the Board of Appeals. You just might have to take some time from work to go there. Also in NJ if I fail you for a job, the STATE says, I have to quote you the exact code section, Chapter and Verse, or else I would lose my case if we go to court. Using AL for wiring is not against the NEC, might be a local code, but you can ask for a copy of it.