Does any one have experience with AFCIs running hot to the touch in a load center , and not significantly loaded???


Charlie

... I've never had the pleasure,as NJ hasn't adopted that Code,..supposedly.I ask the electrical inspectors every time I encounter one(an inspector),and I'm told that they (AFCI's)haven't been adopted by the State.??? What gives??
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 02-26-2005).]

My favorite builder says she has heard AFCIs run warm from her sparky

Look at this picture (PDF file):

http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/cms1/AFCI_CUTAWAY.PDF

There is a tiny circuit board in there, with a power supply to supply DC to the circuitry (probably SMPS). There's even a big resistor. It will use some power to do the line monitoring constantly, and dissipate heat in doing so. And it's rather tight in there, so it's hard for the heat to get out, hence a noticeable temperature rise will result (the heat is getting out through the molded case).

I saw a statement from Siemens posted on an electrical forum that recommend not installing their arc fault breakers side by side as the heat from one effects the other.

It also suggested not running fans or vacuums from their AFCIs.

lots of confidence in the quality of their product, eh?

Thanks for the information anything else will be appreciated

Charlie

I suspect that running motors on AFCIs can cause false tripping.

Dave

How do they suggest you vacuum the bedroom?
I guess a conscientious electrician would install a non-AFCI in the hall outside every bedroom door and hope the vacuum has a long enough cord to reach the back corner of the bedroom.

Nebraska also has not yet adopted the AFCI thank goodness.
A number of my service calls on newer houses have been caused by thier tripping. Out of over 40 calls I have found only one circuit problem. (HO added an outlet and did not hook up ground wire.) A new AFCI usually trips in a couple of days but placing a GFCI breaker in the AFCI's place has yet to trip.
I aam still of the opinion that, while the AFCI concept is a good idea, the products offered are expensive junk. Have had problems with all makes.
By the way the contractors who built these places do not seem to respond to service call requests very well. They almost always seem to wait until thier warrenty period is over then give the HO a bill for a service call and put in a new AFCI. At least 5 HO's have shown me thier billing for thier service calls with the notation that the new AFCI is NOT warrented.
Makes you wonder why they won't stand behind thier work.

Whatever you do don't put general room lighting on an afci with your outlets. All it takes is one ceiling fan to become a real pain in the you know where. Don't ask how I know that ok?

I had a service call yesterday on a house I wired in March 2002. The bedroom wiring is protected by 1st generation AFCI breakers that I installed.

The owner knocked a lamp over in the bedroom and the bulb broke as it slamed to the floor causing the AFCI breaker to trip. Of coarse the yuppi homeowner was not able to find the tripped breaker.

Nice easy service call

I can't be sure what part of the breakers protective circuitry caused it to trip...

Was it an arc or a shortcircuit from the bulb smashing that caused the breaker to open?

I can tell you that I do have ceiling fans, florescent closet lights and smoke detectors on these AFCI circuits without any problem call backs ever.

shortcircuit

You must be lucky then,

I changed the way that I wire houses based on our problems in a large apartment building that was done. I don't know if it was the type of AFCI or maybe the fans but everytime the fans were put on they would trip about half of the AFCI's what a pain.

is it ok to install gfci recp. at 1st rect hole instead of arc fault breaker in the load center??

I thought everything in dwelling bed rooms had to be afci, plugs & lights?
not smokes?

Everything in the bedroom has to be AFCI, "all outlets" including smokes. I have even seen debates saying the outside light has to be AFCI if the switch is in the bedroom ... YMMV on that one.

What type of AFCI breaker is it? Square D has a recall on theirs. We have also had problems with motor loads on these circuits, especially with exercise equipment.

Here are the recall notices for the Square D products:
Consumer product Safety Commision (CSPC) ~ http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05035.html
Square D ~ http://www.squared.com/us/squared/corporate_info.nsf/unid/9CB09A222974952E85256F19005EAE4F/$file/afcirecallFrameset.htm

I've been doing this since 2002; 25+ homes a year, and nver had a problem. I must be lucky, too.

I have heard a big part of the "fan problem" is leaving too much exposed insulation exposed on the usual neutral wire cludge and it shorts to ground when you shove all that stuff back in the box. In a regular circuit that will go unnoticed but the GFI function of the AFCI will trip.

Wow I was trying to understand the intent of that code and I guess that is right need to have all outlets on AFCI guess I will start doing em that way and see what happens. So far I haven't been called on it the other way however.