Until today I had no idea there was a product or rather products out their like this.
http://www.controlcable.com/details/item.asp?id=43104471%7CLE332%7C

Mix and match for any given requirements and Rock and Roll.

Great if you want to waste your money!

-Hal

I too will second on the waste of money!

Don't get me wrong, they look nice, and I get a better price from my supply house, but..... I HATE THEM! They are inferior to standard a 66, or 110 block, with the same splitter.

For the money you're spending, and for not much more, you can do this....

For residential applications:
I take the cabinet that that would go in. (The large one, or equivilent Clear Channel brand) A switch as diconnect for the receptical inside next to the cabinet.

I put a 96 - 288 pair 110 block in it for all of the UTP, and land them all. http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/support/documents/specdesign/pdf/41XX6XF4.pdf

(Phone on one row, Data on the other.) Interconnect all of the phones, if not punch a hole out of the cover to a KSU mounted on the wall above it. Take all of the Data to an M-block mounted patch block, or two, and to the hub or switch velcro'ed below that inside the cabinet. (Modems at the desk, as the need to be reset from time to time.)DSL filter too.

(If I have room, and sometimes it becomes two panels as I can have up to 30+ wall plates to cover on larger homes) CATV splitters, below all of it. The only one of the items I ever use out of the whole line of modular guts the make is possibly a CATV amplifier, for signal boost is runs are really long, or I have too many terminations to maintain signal strengh.

The only thing outside the box is the KSU, if they have one, otherwise the same appearance.



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 01-06-2005).]

It's not a waste when HO's are paying for it and giving you money to install it. I have a lot of customers that want the new "Hi Tech" Panel. Waste of money or money maker?

Just because the homeowner is an idiot doesn't mean that you should go along with it. You are supposed to be the professional and know better.

There is nothing new or "hi tech" about these things except that it's a new way for the manufacturers to gain access your wallet.

All it is is a box to hold what has been done on a plywood backboard for at least the last 30 years. You don't cram everything into a little box and YOU get to choose the components. In short, these things are for people who don't know what they are doing.

No professional would use these things because they are inflexible and you wind up mounting stuff outside the box anyway.

E57 and other threads here talk about the right way to handle this.

-Hal

Hal, just because you don’t like them doesn’t meant they are garbage or that anyone using them doesn’t know what they are doing. Pretty much every low voltage contractor in my area uses structured wiring panels for residential projects. I use Leviton and OnQ panels on some projects. I don’t use all the modules but do use some of them. In my area there is no such thing as an unfinished basement so the low voltage wiring usually ends up in one of the closets making the use of some type of enclosure is necessary. I live in a very high tech area and many homeowners will research what equipment and wiring they want installed. If they want me to use structure wiring panels I’m going to use them. The low voltage wiring for homes in my area often ends up over $100K. If you read Marks (e57) reply again you will see that he does use these cabinets but not the modules.

Curt

New thread title "Grumpy old men". Geez guys just because YOU don't like it I guess NOBODY should use it. "Damn these new fangled motorized buggies....they are junk! Old Trigger never needs any of that whatcha call it.....gasoline.."

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 01-07-2005).]

If you read Marks (e57) reply again you will see that he does use these cabinets but not the modules.

I have nothing against using cabinets, just not that JUNK! For $100K I think you could be more "creative" and do something better!

And yeah, I get REAL grumpy when I get get called to service or add to a system installed with one of those and I have to jump through hoops because it's useless for what I have to do. Then you see the customer get real grumpy when they find out that it all needs to be replaced and what it's going to cost.

The point here is that any installation like this NEEDS TO BE MADE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE to allow for future growth and changes. That simply isn't going to happen with this stuff that crams everything into a little box in a closet.

Maybe this issue isn't important in a small condo or residence but most of the residences around here will want data, CATV, satellite and key systems (PBX) with ever changing multiple lines and this doesn't all happen at once. Many times we are there after the fact and the house has been wired by some misguided individual who thought it was cool to use one of these "structured wiring" things. Unfortunately it's useless to us and all the wiring is usually too short when we go to remove it and throw it in the dumpster. On top of that we have to mess with CATV and data because it's all in the same damn box!!

This isn't progress, this is the dumbing down of an industry. These things were created to make it easy for people with little or no knowledge of the data, CATV and telecom crafts to install these systems.

Sorry, but when you know what you are doing you build your own distribution to fit the circumstances.

-Hal

WOOOO! HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Never thought this would raise so many Hackles! I hope the sripts are filled for the blood pressure medication!

Hey I will admit that I know little about residential VDV.

This item looked kinda nice for a simple install since it is all in one and looks like it will meet my own needs rather well for the money.

This seems to be a HOT topic for some, let's keep it professional please!

Bill

These panels make for a clean install, and if the componets are installed properly it makes for easy troubleshooting. And they are very simple to add onto. Maybe if some one does not know how they all work together, they might not like them.

I would like to know how the MASTER would install the phone, CATV, multi-room sound and high speed internet in every room.

I would like to know how the MASTER would install the phone, CATV, multi-room sound and high speed internet in every room.

I certainly hope sound has nothing to do with what we are ranting about here.

Data, voice and CATV I do the same as I would any commercial job only on a smaller scale. Why should it be any different?

... it makes for easy troubleshooting. And they are very simple to add onto.

Easy troubleshooting sure, if you have replacement parts on the truck should something go bad. Problem is you think that you are the only one who is ever going to handle this. Chances are the cable guy is going to tear it up putting his own stuff in and the TELCO guy is just going to walk away because he won't want to touch it.

As far as add-on's, sure again as long as you only have to make it bigger and the parts are available. What happens when I come along and need all the voice home runs run to the key system I'm going to install instead of the block inside that thing that bridges them all together?

Maybe if some one does not know how they all work together, they might not like them.

That's exactly the point. I don't want them to work together. I want data, voice, CATV and/or satellite separate in their own areas with enough room so they can be changed, configured or added to by the different crafts without bothering anything else. I also want standard components that anybody would have and know how to use.



-Hal

Wow! This got a herd of goats!

I am going to have to agree with Hbliss on this... "Just because the homeowner is an idiot doesn't mean that you should go along with it. You are supposed to be the professional and know better."

And this...."The point here is that any installation like this NEEDS TO BE MADE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE to allow for future growth and changes. That simply isn't going to happen with this stuff that crams everything into a little box in a closet."

The ONLY reason I even use the box it because I am forced to. The owner and Arch have no idea what EIA/TIA 570 is, or what is about. And when I do, I use the largest one possible (48"), and often two of them!

See page 70 of this link:
IF YOU DONT HAVE BROADBAND YOU MAY NOT WANT TO OPEN THIS LINK IT IS 102 PAGES LONG! (in pdf) http://www.markhellerelectric.com/opencritique.pdf
(Remember it is a "Standard" not a "Code"!)

And the reason I can't use the guts, is that often my customers work from home, (technically have offices with employees at home) and have 6-12 lines, and ADSL, some with SDSL or sometimes T-1, and expect me to put that in the box too! 'Cause they went to someones house and saw a pretty box, now they want one, and are pissed off when I tell them I wont put it in closet. (Some of my Inspectors demand 110.26 workspace for them. I love it when they do!)

In the same amount of space you can put more in with standard equipment on 66, and 110 blocks at about the same price. And your customer won't know the differance, all they see is the front of the panel. And when you're not around, and some guy like me, or Hbliss comes by to add a line, we won't bag on the install.... Or say that we can't without starting over.

For the working from home culture, the guts of those items are adequate for a studio apartment. IMHO

Didn't mean to offend anyone, but it is just another reason for a VDV forum

eswets, I'm not sure how the Master would do it, but... If interested I could tell you how I would.

any links to VDV forums?

This thread is hilarious.

Any links to anger management forums?

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 01-08-2005).]

IMO, with so many different situations and products available to suggest that something can or should only be done one way is a little short-sighted.

These systems are widely used and to suggest that all the Installers are ignorant or incompetant is ridiculous, but people have a right to an opinion.

Now that some strong opinions on this have been aired I hope the next time this subject comes up it can be less energized.

Bill

(edited - meant 'widely used', not wisely)

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 01-08-2005).]

These systems are widely used and to suggest that all the Installers are ignorant or incompetant is ridiculous, but people have a right to an opinion...

Any links to anger management forums?

Looks like an apology is in order on my part. I made some strong statements above which I really did not intend to be taken the way they were or offend anyone. I'm sorry they caused this thread to take this direction.

Voice, video and data may be a familiar area to some of us while others are learning or looking for information. I'm happy to see that we have a VDV forum where this subject can be discussed.

I sincerely hope that this thread won't discourage anyone from asking whatever they have on their mind. I promise that in the future if I have comments or criticisms I'll try to express them more constructively rather than personally.

Again, my apologies to all.

-Hal

I have used the Open House system for a few custom homes and I put one in my house too. It is just a mounting cabinet with rails to mount what ever voice/catv you need. It has room for expansion and even a separate compartment to mount a duplex for the amplifier, if you need one. It is priced reasonably and expansion blocks for voice/catv are readily available. I suspect the Leviton set-up is readily available too. They've been around a while.

This is a good topic, and the lessons to be learned here are, when and where to use a systems cabinet, last year we removed 9 of them at owners request, it appears that on each job, someone installed a systems cabinet where cable runs would have to be excessive, and in some cases doubled back in order to use the cabinet, when we asked the homeowner why they wanted it removed, they said no one uses it, the answer is always the same, the cable company did not want to tie in to it, the phone company din't want to tie into it, and the computer wiring is on the other side of the house, VDV wiring requires good planning, to avoid interconnect problems, one way to avoid these problems is to get information from the homeowner on their present and possible future requirements, take the time to know your customers needs, and try to design a cable system for their needs, the cabinets on the market today assume, the installation is done by one contractor, and all utilities enter at the same location.
The structured wiring industry, has had some rough times, i belive much of it is due to the lack of understanding, the difference of point to point wiring, and systems wiring, which has defined wiring requirements, for each installation, and this must be done in order to meet or exceed the customers present, and future needs.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 01-09-2005).]

Now how in the world did this get locked and then unlocked???????!!!!!!!!

RIP!

Kentvw,

You brought up a good topic, and it should be open for comment, we all need to be open, and exchange ideas, that will enable us all to learn more, on any topic posting.
This topic concerns most of us doing residential installations, and all the information, we can gather on VDV cable installs, will be of help.
I would like to hear how some VDV cable problems were resolved, and how some do their VDV installations.

Thank you,
Les


[This message has been edited by LK (edited 01-10-2005).]

I too would like to apologize for helping to take this thread to the dark side.

And offer some explaination of the method I described and how it came about....

I have had to go and add to these boxes, and it can be a real hassle to add that fifth, sixth or more lines. Only 4 bridged lines, so the module is got to go, and cables too short. So I started replacing the module with a standard 110 block. And it worked so well, that when forced to put in a box, I put in a standard 110 block right off the bat. Just to save the hassle later. It has worked so well that I have made it part of the standard package. Just mount it with a self tapping screw right to the back of the cabinet, and 100 pair block takes up about the same amount of space.
http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/products/S110_Wiring_Blocks.asp

Still prefer to stick it all on the wall of the garage for proper display.




[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 01-10-2005).]

I was installing all my VDV on plywood and not using the enclosures. I had some customers who found out about the enclosures and wanted me to come back and install one.
They wanted to finish off the room and wanted everything hidden with a cover.
Now I let them know all their options ahead of time and let them make the final decision.
As far as cables being too short I like to leave about a 3ft. loop on all my cables. I leave this loop up in between the ceiling joists so that as more cable is needed I can pull some down from this loop.