I'm just curious how Service Upgrades (Resi) are done in other places. Does the Electrician disconnect and reconnect himself? or what? Are any special precautions taken as these are being done live?

Bill

I disconnect / reconnect & tap some juice for lights in bettween. Fiberglass ladder, gloves, goggles. Reconnection after metering out, tap the conductors together once first before connecting.

Bill,

Getting an uprated supply installed in the U.K. is quite easy from the residential electrician's point of view. We're not allowed to interfere with anything on the supply side of the meter (or the meter itself), so it's a call to the utility and a big bill to the customer.

In Ohio we do the whole Kit & Kaboodle, starting from disconnecting at the point of attachment, rip everything off the house and down to the service panel. Then reinstall the new service, and tie into Ohio Edison. Call the inspector and he calls OE for a formal reconnect. That was before September 4, Now like in the UK, there is a Big bill to the customer for the reconnect, thanks to deregulation.
This diregulation is not going to come to any good, I dont know anyone who wanted it but we sure got it. God I hate socialism.

OK,

From the responses so far it seems like it's the same as here. I was curious because of all the talk of not working live and didn't understand how it could be done otherwise.

Bill

Service gets shut down at the Xformer by the PoCo here... I'm unaware of a fee, but there is the requisite inspection at about $80 (it keeps going up...) have to be ready by about 2:00 PM for the hook up or wait another day... They don't like to pay overtime...
We're responsible starting at the masthead/drop ... The PoCo makes the Drop to OH connection.

In WI, we would do it hot and use NM Connectors for splitbolts (I quit that co. very shortly after...) in the wet snow with no PPE... (I've been there too, sparky...)

In a state that has CEU's for Master's too... Go figure... The next co. in WI I worked for was great, to contrast... I'm sure the former was the exception...

The utilities here are wierd, that's the only word that comes to mind. I suppose if we dereg things wil change..dunno...
Anyways, most of us will do an arieal live. There are many service laterals that we will arrange so as to a minimal downtime swap over once the power boys pull up. And i won't touch those steel JB's they have for thier UG systems..too tight for live work..

My technique for a live arieal bug simply comes from years of watching the power boys. The only difference is the actual connection, the use crimp-on's covered by an 'H-tap' which is only a snap on cover. They'll cut off anything i do, so i will usually use those 2-hole in-line connectors as they are cheap $$$.

If you really think here, the power boys could shut down the serving X-former, but usually don't.

We do everything from the taps to the panel. Always hot. In fact I'm replacing a rusted UG meter socket next week.
Gloves and faceshield are a must!
BTW,
I use H-Taps with the snap-on cover. at $2-3.00 each, it's cheaper and much quicker than bugs ang taping. Downside-cost of crimper.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 09-15-2001).]

Hi, folks --first post here!

I will generally work an overhead service hot, as well. I start by opening the main breaker and pulling the meter, then cutting the drop connections with insulated cable shears (fiberglass handles), right at the utility side of the existing splices.

After ripout and replacement of the panel and meter pan, I use my DMM to check for shorts between conductors/neutral/ground, then resplice the new entrance conductors to the drop using a connector called a "KUPLER" manufactured by Ilsco. These are insulation-piercing connectors that require no stripping or handling of the live wires, other than inserting them into a hole, and tightening an (insulated) bolt. The only downside of these things is the price (about $15 each), but I try to get them back from the homeowner once the utility does the permanent hookup. They are reusable several times before the internal teeth wear out.

In addition to the insulated cable shears, I also wear rubber gloves (rated to 1 kV) with leather protectors, and a full-face shield when working with a live service drop. perhaps a bit of overkill, but better safe than sorry! Also, all the safety precautions make a point to the homeowner, who is quite often hanging around watching!

Here in Northern CA, one must first acquire a permit from the county, then schedule with the Utility Co. to do a disconnect/reconnect. All meters have a seal and you are not suppose to break them. There is no charge to the customer from the Utility Co (yet).The new service must be inspected and tagged before the Utility Co. can reconnect.

Good question. I live/work on the boundary between two utilities. Allegheny Power does the disconnect at the service head. When I'm finished the inspector puts his sticker on the new panel and I call the utility back
(the guy that disconnects usually gives me his cell #) and they reconnect.
I have not done an upgrade in Duquesne Light's area yet but I got screwed out of a job because of misinformation. Duquesne Light allows the electrician to disconnect and reconnect. After I finish the upgrade, the inspector would approve, I would reconnect and the inspector would notify the utility of the upgrade.
I've spoken to people at Duquesne Light many times about the "logistics" of a service upgrade. I wanted to know how they went about it so I could quote jobs. They always told me "Oh yeah, because of deregulation, we now charge $250.00 to cut-off and reconnect for an upgrade" Despite numerous opportunities, they never told me that I could do it myself! I quoted two jobs and made sure I told the customer about the $250.00 charge by the utility. It wasn't until I called a local inspector to introduce myself that HE mentioned that I could do the cut-out and reconnect myself.
To make matters worse, I told one of the customers about the charge and suggested they call just to verify the amount. Guess what - the utility told them the charge was $100.00! I really felt stupid. I meant to call the utility this week to ask about that discrepancy but didn't get to it.
I also bought lineman's glove and protectors for that job. I'll need them anyway.
BTW, I called Bashline in Grove City, PA to order gloves and was told that there is a 30 week wait for the rubber gloves. I ended up buying from Mitchell Instrument - no problem, got them within a week.
Don

Don:
In Grove City is Halls Safety Equip Corp. out on route 173 N they have gloves in stock.
Their phone number is 1-800-227-4255 and they have a website-WWW.hallssafety.com

Here in my area in mid MO the utility cuts the overhead and then after the city inspector stickers it they will reconnect the overhead line. We are not allowed to do anything to the drop.

I deal with three, no four now, utilities. One, (Cinergy) officially won't let us even cut the seal, let alone do the reconnect at the weatherhead. The second, our local REA/REMC, doesn't care about the seal or reconnect YET, but I'm told that will change shortly. IP&L trouble guys in Indianapolis usually grump if we DON'T do the reconnect (they have to get out of the truck, I guess) The newest PoCo (?) is Vectern, and we're scheduled to do a panel change-out to CB's in the near future in their area, but they haven't returned my calls yet about their specs. We use "squeez-ons" (H-taps) from Burndy, a Burndy crimp tool and 3M 2" 33+ from Graybar, usually. They have the hot gloves, as well.

Oh, inspections are like that, too. Some require inspects first, some don't care, and Indianapolis allows license holders to self-inspect services for connect/re-connect.

[This message has been edited by Dallas (edited 09-15-2001).]

Same in Britain. Officially, it's a criminal offense for anyone but a PoCo employee to cut a seal.

Hello Paul,
While it's not a criminal offense here (except to put jumper bars in behind the meter)the PoCo Cinergy probably would like it to be so. The first time we found out how much they disliked us cutting seals, or pulling meters, we responded to a call and found the meter base SMOKING. (loose connection had melted through the cast pan) We cut the seal and yanked the meter! When the PoCo service man got there, he threw a fit, and a week later we received a letter from their legal dept telling us that if we ever did that again, they wouldn't do new connects or reconnects if we were involved. That's how bad they can be, sometimes.

[This message has been edited by Dallas (edited 09-16-2001).]

We regularly cut seals to assess the condition of the Meter pan when doing estimates. Some do have locks on them which require a phone call to get removed (and up to 2 Bus. Days), but even the locks are being cut off recently because they're too rusted for them to unlock. They tell us to just cut them open.

Bill

Sounds like the sort of inflexible, unreasoning official that we colloquially call a "Jobsworth." You know the type: "More than my job's worth to let you do that," or something similar.

I think most of our utility guys would probably accept a broken seal in a genuine emergency of this sort, though.

In fact, I remember about 4 years ago I had to disconnect service & strip out a main panel and other fittings on a building which was to be demolished. I spoke to a local engineer (different co. to where I am now) and he said he was sorry but they couldn't get anyone out at the time scheduled. Told me to go ahead and break the seal to pull the main fuse and they'd be along next day to disconnect at the pole & remove their equipment.

That's the sort of guy it's nice to deal with!

What about the OSHA rules that say you can't work on energized equipment?
Don(resqcapt19)

Don,

That's part of the reason for my question. I'm talking strictly residential here, but how could this work be done without someone working live? If it's not the electrician it's the utility worker. I don't see how it can be done otherwise, that is without shutting down a large amount of others at the same time.

Bill

Is there an actual OSHA rule that states this? If so I have never heard of it. I am a lineman in Houston and very seldom do we turn anything off to work on it. From 120V to 35KV, it gets worked hot.

Glenn and Bill,
OSHA has different standards for the utility workers and construction workers. The rule for utility workers is in 1910.269 and the rule for construction is in 1926.416. There is also a rule in 1910.333 for general workers which permits live work sometimes.

1910.269(l)(1)
"General." Only qualified employees may work on or with exposed energized lines or
parts of equipment. Only qualified employees may work in areas containing unguarded, uninsulated energized lines or parts of equipment operating at 50 volts or more. Electric lines and equipment shall be considered and treated as energized unless the provisions of paragraph (d) or paragraph (m) of this section have be followed.

1926.416(a)(1)
No employer shall permit an employee to work in such proximity to any part of an
electric power circuit that the employee could contact the electric power circuit
in the course of work, unless the employee is protected against electric shock by
deenergizing the circuit and grounding it or by guarding it effectively by insulation
or other means.

1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be
deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can
demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is
infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that
operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be
no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.


I don't see anything in these rules that would permit an electrican to make a service change live. Note that in 1926.416 it says nothing about PPE, the insulation is on the equipment, not the worker.

Here is a link to the OSHA index: http://www.osha-slc.gov/OshStd_toc/OSHA_Std_toc.html

Don(resqcapt19)


[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-17-2001).]

In dealing with BGE in MD I cut the seal and pull the meter. I run the service drop to the point of connection. Utility subs make the permanant connection hot after inspection. To get temporary power I use the Polaris taps to connect to the old meter tail.

resqcapt,

In 1926.416 how did you get that the protection had to be on the equipment? Wouldn't gloves etc be 'other means'?

Jim
I was wrong about that. In a letter ruling on 1926.416, OSHA said that PPE could be used. The letter was issued on 2/23/99 and said in part:

"......Guarding against electric shock
You ask if the term "insulation," as used in 1926.416(a), refers only to the insulating
material that encases a wire, or if the term refers to "a separate insulating system worn
or used by the workers?"
Where a circuit has not been deenergized, section 1926.416(a) requires that employees
be protected from electric shock by "guarding it [the circuit] effectively by insulation."
This means that the employer must ensure that insulation already covers the energized
parts and will protect the employee. That insulation must be sufficient/appropriate for the working conditions. If it will not protect the employee, then the employer must use insulating material, such as an insulating blanket, to protect against the shock hazard.
Where that is not feasible, this provision, in conjunction with §1926.95(a), requires
employers to protect employees with appropriate insulating personal protective
equipment."

However, there is no way that it is permissible for an electrican to work the dwelling unit service hot per 1910.333, even if PPE is provided.
Don(resqcapt19)

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-17-2001).]

Ah, our dear government trying their best to control everything and write circles around us, while everyday life and work goes on, fairly safely. Training and discipline (or the threat of) is what keeps us safe.

As far as I know the utility that I work for here does not really care one way or the other if the seal is cut and the meter is pulled by an electrician.

Personaly I do not care either. It makes my job easier since I do not have to make a special trip to remove a meter band. Although some meters have lockbands and does require a trip.

Also there has never been a problem with "electrician connections" at the W/H. THe only thing that gets under my skin when this is done is that sometimes a change order is never called in and the work has never had a permit or inspection. After a few months those temp. conn. give up due to weather and the elements. Then we get the call of lights out or dim lights or whatever. The service usually gets permanent conn. although it has never been inspected. Unless the job was really shabby and can be determined unsafe by the utility(me). I applaud the guy who uses squeezons to make the conn at the W/H(just remember to put the copper on the bottom). THe guys who use the one bolt, insulation piercing contraptions, please stop. Those things are not worth a dime much less a 150 dimes!

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't mind if ya'll guys make my job easier, just don't make it harder than it should be.

glenn35

Glenn,

And how do you feel about using NM Connectors for split-bugs?

I see nothing in 305 (temp wiring) that exempts their use from 110-14...

Not exactly sure what conn. you are referring to. Would that be the split bolts made by Kearney? What is NM? Non metalic?

Any connection that I have seen that was not a compression type will eventually give up. Except for some Fargos that are only used for a copper to copper conn. When a copper to alum. conn. is made it is best done with a compression connector. And the cu. should always be placed on bottom and never come into direct contact with the alum conductor.

WOW! How did all this get so far off topic from the original?

glenn35;
Virgil's refering to NM connectors used as a down and dirty quicky for W/H connections.....fairly well down the list for most of us.

I assume you mean the practice of using romex connectors as temp. taps. I know this is done in some localities, where the PoCo will come out and replace them. I saw it as a "trade tip" in a different forum once, and that was the first time I ever heard of it. Since then, however I have gotten a call to replace them once.

Sorry,

bordew had said something about it in this post .

I had actually dug out my own 4/0 Splitbolts to use when my short-term boss in WI told me to use Romex Connectors... I was horrified at the suggestion...

Seemed there for a minute that I was the only one here who felt that way!

Does it strike anyone in this forum that there is something wrong here in that any proceedure is safe for one set of workers and not another?

Using Romex clamps like that is always wrong. Why not just take some bare solid #10 and wrap and twist it around the conductors? At least it is not likely to damage the conductors nor to break.

And the point about not mixing Cu/Al is quite valid. But if you apply anti-oxidant and wrap it with rubber tape, then it should survive "temporarily".

I think it is so much easier to just use the right split bolt. I'd hate to have the clamp on the neutral break while my tools are powered from the temp service.

Yeah Dspark.. I would prefer your "cheap" method!

Steve,
It does seem odd that us post-meter guys aren't allowed to work hot, but the lineman are expected to...

"Oh, 25KV is OK but don't get near that 120V stuff!" (toungue in cheek)