I am curious to know what bus material the panels you most frequently install have. Copper, Aluminum or plated Copper? I know that location plays in to this selection sometimes, but if it doesn't, why do you prefer what you prefer?

Copper, We use the CH Classic Loadcenters, We just use, good quality material on all our jobs, better contact with copper, and the breakers are better quality.
We tried other Loadcenters, and after problems, and expensive call backs we went back to CH.
SQ D is another good Loadcenter, but we can't use it on service upgrades where they are bottom feed, because SQ D has neutral bars all clustered next to Main Breaker, and all the neutral wires would have to be spliced to reach the bars.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 09-25-2004).]

LK, you could turn the SQ D panel upside down. Also there is no reason you can't splice the neutrals. I usually use Siemens for no special reason other than thats what my main supplier carries. I could not even tell you what the bus is made from.

We only have one supply house in town and they carry Siemens ITE. They have their stock loadcenters in either copper or aluminum bus. If you order tubs with interiors that take bolt-ins they are usually plated copper bus. I started dealing with a supply house in a neighboring town last year that carries GE Powerline Gold Series loadcenters. They come standard with tin plated copper bus, even the stab-in loadcenters. SQD QO loadcenters are all plated copper bus. SQD Homeline are aluminum only. I prefer copper and in situations where the loadcenter is in an unheated area, I prefer the plated copper bus.

Scott,

quote,

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"LK, you could turn the SQ D panel upside down. Also there is no reason you can't splice the neutrals. I usually use Siemens for no special reason other than thats what my main supplier carries. I could not even tell you what the bus is made from."

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When you turn the SQ D upside down, the neutral bars are at the bottom of the panel,
and yes there is a reason we can't splice the neutrals, the inspectors in this area, will accept, one or maby two splices, and that is it, all other splices they want in boxes outside the panel, also you can't get away with running the lines from bottom to top of loadcenter breaker, it will fail for loadcenter not to be used as raceway, we argued this was not in the code and the inspector said you are right, it is in the manufacture instructions, do it right and i will be back.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 09-26-2004).]

Say LK, I'm lost on how that inspector is calling the panel a raceway because you ran the conductors from the bottom of the panel to the terminations at the top. Seems to me the same would apply with branch circuits entering at the bottom and running to a top breaker. I would be willing to bet that the manuf meaning is to not allow conductors to run through the panel without terminating. As to limiting the number of splices in a panel, it must be an opinion of the local inspector. Do they have a written ordinance requiring this or does each electrician find out the hard way? Makes for a lot of extra work.

Norstarr,

Yes thst was my understanding of the manufacture, they say gutter and i belive they mean riser feeds, however more then one inspector has knocked this method down, good topic to bring to inspector site.
As for the splicing in the panel, most inspectors in my area will let one or two get by.

FYI, Square D has a "remodel" panel with a built-in splice block for splicing all those pesky wires that end up too short when you replace a panel. I wonder what your inspector whould think about that??

LK I'll count this as another misguided inspector.

Solar,

There is a QO Remod Panel?
The Supply house asked if i had any numbers, do you have more info.

I had a service call today that relates to bus material choice. 20 year-old General Switch 100A MB 20ct panel w/alum bus mounted on the outside concrete block wall of a basement. HO had called the utility because the lights were flickering off and on for about 10-20 seconds at a time for the last few weeks. This past weekend half of the lights would go off and stay off for 10-15 minutes then come back on. The utility came out today and checked all the connections on their side and told her to call me. The panel looked okay. Neat original installation. #2 copper THHN entrance conductors in 2" rigid. I removed the cover and sat there for 15 minutes just listening. I had the HO go turn on all the lights in the house then I heard the sizzle sound coming from the main. I pulled the meter and removed the main breaker. It is one of those mains consisting of a 2 pole 100A breaker stabbed onto the top of the buses. One of the bus clips on the main was smoked and spread out. The aluminum bus was corroded. I cleaned up the bus and replaced the main with an ITE 2 pole 100A breaker which not only fit the bus but also accepted the hold-down retainer clip. This is a temp fix as the HO wants a new panel ASAP. There was some minimal rust on the backside of the enclosure. No backer board between the panel and the block wall. Washer/dryer located near by and the dryer vent went out the block wall 3' from the service. Moisture, I believe, contributed to the demise of the aluminum bus. I don't believe it would have had the same effect on a copper bus in the same time frame.

It looks like I had the wrong company--I spent almost half an hour roaming around the Square D web site looking for their remodel panels, with no luck. It looks like it was Cutler-Hammer I was thinking of. Here are a few Cutler-Hammer part numbers:

CH22B100CRN
CH32B150JRN
CH32B200JRN
CH42B200KRN

I hope that helps!

--Solar

[This message has been edited by SolarPowered (edited 09-28-2004).]

Solar,
We use CH on upgrade work, when a customer requests SQ D we have to do all the splicing in boxes outside thr panel, so we try to stay with the CH, there are some areas that the inspectors will let it slide if you have a panel full of splices, but not in my area.

We use Siemans with copper bus. Some towns require it and I have some customers or blue prints ask for it. I never had a request for AL busses. To make my life simpler I just make them all CU instead of tring to keep track who gets what. I don't know if there is much differance in price.

We allways block the panel of a basement wall. I see so many expencive trac homes with the panel on the cocrete. After just a few years it is starting to show signs of deteration.

Tom