From an insert included with the latest gas/electric bill:

Thinkgood:

i dont know what to say but that is very odd but i did heard some kind of protection by injecting small DC not AC current with very low votage too.

myself i did see one on major petroleum pipeline it have small power device to inject the dc power to prevent corrosion on pipe line.

i know this is kinda of odd item to see it but if anyone else know about this please do pitch in here.

merci, marc

This is called cathodic protection. It is a way of preventing corrosion on metals. It is a specilized circuit that some where has a sacrifical metal that is supposed to corrod (rust away) before the metal bieng protected.
It's an intersting subject, but expensive to install and requires regular testing.

Ahhh... This reminds me of something... A few AHJ's out here want gas to be bonded back to the panel, along with the normal things... I have (had... I gotta look for it again,) a formal letter from So Cal Gas Co. stating they DO NOT want their system bonded to the electrical grounding system... I get fun looks when I pull this out during inspections! A couple places want it anyways... Could this have something to do with that?? I always thought it was better if a hot wire hit a gas line that it didn't spark!

-Randy

Randy while the NEC does not allow gas lines as a grounding electrode the NEC requires the gas piping in the house to be bonded. Around here gas lines are threaded or welded black iron pipe.

So in the structure the gas lines are bonded.

I imagine they install a dielectric coupling at the meter in order to provide the cathodic protection.


Unless you are installing dielectric fittings on the gas line at the hot water heater the gas line ends up bonded anyway.

This goes to different authorities with different (and conflicting) requirements. Metal piping systems in the house should be bonded, both IMHO and by NEC. But plumbers hate underground water pipe as the grounding electrode, the NEC prohibits the use of underground gas pipe as a grounding electrode, and clearly the gas company doesn't like it either.

IMHO the 'best' way to balance all of this is to have dielectric couplings in any underground metal piping systems where they enter structures, to bond this piping internally, but to explicitly not use this piping as a grounding electrode. This would help eliminate the problems of neutral currents flowing on metal piping, something that happens in urban areas where houses that use the same water pipes all bond them to neutral in their main panels; net result is multiple bonds between neutral and a continuous metallic system, and thus significant parallel paths.

This would require a change in the NEC, since an underground water pipe of sufficient length is _required_ to be used as a grounding electrode.

-Jon

OK, a dielectric at the meter makes sense. However, the pipe that enters the meter is coming from under the ground.

How do they keep the electric current on the pipe if it's in contact with the ground? I know for certain that under the street the pipe is in direct contact with the earth, based on some emergency digging once done around here.

Maybe this should be moved to theory...can somebody explain the cathodic protection in terms of how the current doesn't just go to ground?

Thanks.

Isn't the whole point that the current goes to ground? (Low voltage = not much current)

I like Winnies idea!

A very interesting topic. In my area, everyone gets flexible plastic pipe, yellow in color, with a stranded yellow tracer wire of about 8 gauge from the main to the building. The wire isn't connected to anything. It's just there to aid in locating the pipe underground.

Around here all new and recent gas services are poly pipe. AND I have noticed rectifiers in cabinets mounted on poles apparently for cathodic protection but this seems to be for the larger distribution lines. Don't know if it would still energize the smaller mains.

-Hal

Duplicate post removed

[This message has been edited by Mean Gene (edited 06-03-2004).]

I read some more about it. Makes sense. The pipe is one long cathode.

This system, cathodic ground is also used for fuel systems in gas stations. It does use a consumable rod that has to be tested and replaced as needed.

The parallel paths are one reason plumbers don't like grounded pipes, another is that some people don't follow the proper bonding procedure and/or don't know what they're doing and there's nothing like being knee deep in water and having a 3 inch spark jump off a pipe when you break a union.

“…dog's leash or an antenna”? Totally weird.

I swear the new gas meters look like plastic and feel like plastic when you rap on them.

Bob,
I used to bond gas all the time, until I had an AHJ tell me to remove it per So Cal Gas Co. I called So Cal Gas & asked for a formal opinion on this... I received a letter from them... 2 or 3 cities that have asked for this since then, I showed the letter & 1 of them nixed requiring me to do this... This plays out as the fun of doing a job with 2 entities butting heads with each other... If they want it, I bond it... But after being told to remove it, I only do it where requested... Should I bring the NEC requirements up to the gas company?

-Randy

Randy I can only go buy the products I see in use here.

Here it would be impossible for the gas pipe not to be bonded, by way of the EGC to the stove or the EGC to a furnace / boiler.

I do not see how you can really comply with the gas companies request, with out cutting the EGC off of gas appliances.

If they want to come in and put dielectric fittings in place that might work.

Bob

It's an East Coast thing.

Randy,
If the gas company objects to bonding the interior gas piping, tell them to look at their code, NFPA 54, The Fuel Gas Code, it is where the NEC gas piping bonding rule comes from.
Don

ThinkGood — Indeed, I should not question local practices or customs anywhere, especially 1000+ miles away.

Foot-in-mouth disease for me.