... This is the 2nd time a "customer" had me seal permits, and wound up doing the work themselves...I sealed this particular permit about 2 months ago,and was waiting to hear back from the guy about when I can start the job...Lo and behold,I never heard from him again,and today the AHJ from that town called me and asked if I'd done the work...I replied NO, and he said it was atrocious...Luckily for me,I knew the AHJ,and he knew I hadn't done it,but he said he had to inquire if I'd done it anyhow...The HO bold-faced lied to the Inspector,and told him I did in fact do it..When I was told of this I was LIVID!!!!
The AHJ said I need to go down and tell what happened in writing,then they'll impose some hefty fines on this slime-ball..
Anyone else have this problem..??
Russ

let 'em have it Russ.

Never had this happen that I know about. Some villages around here let anyone do the paper work and sign the forms, so I suppose if my registration was public record, anyone could say I was doing the work whether I was or not.

no signed contract = no permit applied for.

If the customer wants to get plans approved they can either hire an engineer to create them or sign my contract to do so.

Attic rat IMHO fill out the AHJ's forms then tell that customer good bye and send him to your most expensive and nasty competetor

If the AHJ has inspected your previous project then he should know that you have not done this project. Besides there is no signed contract, proof of payments, proof of down payment, proof of notice of completion.
So by not having any of the above AHJ should know that you did not do the project.

Eward

The non-start has happened to me in city and suburbs a few times- If the work is not begun or scheduled in a timely manner, I just send the building department a letter stating that we are not associated with that project and we request voiding the permit. When we are a part of a larger permit, it puts the general under the scope too. I haven't had a problem with this, the AHJ doesn't gripe at all, we have a paper trail and it puts the ball in the city's court. It also has not been a problem with the procrastinating customer, some have been surprised at the response, but they are made aware of this upon acceptance and in your contract you get the permit fee as part of deposit.

[This message has been edited by chi spark (edited 04-21-2004).]

I think that a call to a lawyer would be in order. What happened if the house burned down and someone had died and it was related to the work done. The town thinks you did it and you would end up in a corner trying to prove you didn't do the work even though you pulled a permit for it.
I say file something against the person for your own pertection down the road

This hasn't happened to me (yet), but I can see the potential. If the homeowner has pulled the permit for a remodel job all I need to do as far as the electrical permit is to call the city permitting department and ask them to add me to the permit as the EC. There is no way for them to know if it's me on the phone or the homeowner. As far as the license number, it's in the city data bank or if they really want to be prepared if available from the state licensing web site http://lookup.llronline.com/Lookup/Contractors.asp. I was discussing this with another EC a few weeks ago and IMHO I could pull a permit, complete a job, and get it inspected on anyone's license that I wanted. I see this as a potential legal minefield.

[This message has been edited by SteveMc (edited 04-21-2004).]

It happened to me once but it was a GC who did the work. The inspector called me personally and told me to check out the finished job. My 2 year old could have done better. The city let us retract the permit. I never heard from that job again, thank God.

Blessings, Mark

Get a Rope !!!

Russ,
We get these about two times a year, but GC's are the best at this scheme, they bring you the prints, you quote them, and then they sign the contract you seal the permit, and then weeks go by, and then a month goes by, so you call to see what is the status of the job, they tell you it will start a little late, there are some delays with the loan for the owner, so you wait and wait, now before you know it, three months have passed, you call again, this time they say Oh! the owner is waiting till september for the kids to be back in school, Ill call as soon as i hear from the owner, that is the last you will hear from the GC, what has happened is, he did the wiring himself with your permit.
So now, what we do is send a certified letter to the building department, letting them know, we did not do work at this address, and enclose a copy of the permit and the contract, so we are not a contractor of record at that address.
This allows the local AHJ to take action.
Here in NJ a Seal is required on the permit so you can not just use a number.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 04-21-2004).]

Perhaps a visit to an attorney would be a good idea. Have them draft you up a real good set of documents for potential clients to sign, so you have that paper trail to back you up. As they say in our shop, if it's not on paper, you didn't do it. Oh, and thanks for discussing it here, helps others in the long term Take care, Brian

Brian,
What EC,s must remember to do, is notify the AHJ in writing as soon as they discover any misuse of permits, this will help clean-up the industry.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 04-21-2004).]

The guys at my old shop ran into a version of this...

The GC we'd been doing work for sold the last house owing us $15K. The foundation was poured, and we were waiting for the splinterers (excuse me - framing guys) to finish the outside, so we could work on the inside. Put up a temp service, and filed for the permit. Everything got WAY jumbled up and behind schedule. We were supposed to start in May... They finally started framing in June... you know how it is.

Well, after numerous haggles with GC, where he wanted us to start even though he owed us from the LAST job, the boss finally got into a pissing contest, which ended with a threat of a lein against the property.

Didn't hear anything from my foreman, until one day he was driving by the site, nad noticed "E.C. 'X'" vans in the driveway. Well, he drives an unmarked utility body, so he stopped in and BS'd with the guys, then stopped by the Village Hall, to have a short conversation with the AHJ.

Something like: "Did X pull a permit for the job on Main Street?"

"No, why would X pull one...you guys are working over there, right?"

"Right?"

AHJ went over and "stop work"ed 'em, due to improper permits, and, IIRC, quality of work. He had a few choice words for the GC as well... something about a fine toothed comb.

As always, it pays to be on good terms with your inspectors!

Not-so-subliminal message:

Goldfinger: "Sue"
Prince, Faith: "Sue Me"
George Harrison: "Sue Me, Sue You Blues"
Dion: "Runaround Sue"
The Oak Ridge Boys: "Bobby Sue"
Buddy Holly: "Peggy Sue Got Married"

My favorite:
Johnny Cash: "A Boy Named Sue"

This one would definitely not be considered a frivolous lawsuit. What chutzpah !

I think the liability issue is a good one for argument's sake or to intimidate the GC or owner with rightous indignaton, but in reality, I doubt it would ever stick. If the GC or owner lies, they're the ones liable for fraud. I don't think it is realistic to put the burden on the EC to also be the honesty police and have to patrol slimey characters like these.

If you can catch them in the act and drop one of Trainwire's wrenches into this guy's job and give him a little justice, by all means please do so. But I personally don't think it is an issue (at least where I come from) that would keep me up at night worrying that someone is exposing me to liability behind my back. I hope I'm not wrong.

Unless you have money to burn, you need to CYA with the AHJ. If your name is anywhere on an official document,you WILL be included in the suit when something goes wrong. Even if you prove you had nothing to do with it, it will cost you money to do so. Now, think about trying to straighten things out 10 or 15 years from now. Without fail, document to the right people and, if at all possibe, hang the bastards out to dry.