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Posted By: derater Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 02:55 AM
Asked this before in the middle of another thread; guess it got lost in the shuffle.
Is it code compliant to feed power to a light
fixture and run wire(s) to the switch to control it? If not, please site code section.
Thanks.
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 03:02 AM
Perfectly legal. Make sure you comply with 200.7(C)(2)
Posted By: hbiss Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 03:04 AM
Is it code compliant? I'm not going to tell you but rather ask you why you think it wouldn't be. Lets see if we can get you to figure it out for yourself.

-Hal
Posted By: Hutch Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 04:10 AM
Isn't this scenario just a 'loop-in'?

White 'Line' lamp (box) to switch - taped Black.
Black, load to lamp.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 09:13 AM
The loop-in method has been pretty much the de facto standard for many years here in Britain.

The only possible drawback is that if someone starts fiddling around with the fixture believing it to be dead because they've turned it off at the wall switch, they could get a nasty surprise. But then if they don't realize there could still be power there, they shouldn't be messing around with it, so I don't see any problem.
Posted By: Hutch Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 02:16 PM
Interesting though Paul the subtle difference between the loop-in colo(u)r coding between the US and UK. When using normal ‘Romex’ style cable for the switch loop in the UK the hot coloured wire is used as the ‘line’ and the neutral wire (taped hot) is used as the switched return ‘load’. Exactly the opposite coding is used in the US – does anyone know why this is?

I understand that for commercial work in the UK, one can obtain twin plus ground cable with two hot coloured wires specially for loop-ins.
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 02:18 PM
Hi Hutch. I think the reason that you are required to use the white as the pwer to the switch an d not from the switch is so you don't end up with two white wires connected to your light, one grounded (white) and one ungrounded(white).

By following 200.7(C)(2) you would have one grounded (white) and one ungrounded (black).
Posted By: CalSparky Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 04:43 PM
For what its worth, in my opinion in the case of 2 wire romex it is much more obvious to use the white wire as the line that is grouped with the hots and run to the switch and the black wire as the line from the switch to the fixture. As was pointed out in the last post the wiring at the fixture has the normal "black and white" wires run to it. More importantly, the white wire grouped with the hots gives the fact away that the white wire is being used as part of a switch leg and the black wire joined with it in the romex should be attached to the fixture -- makes doing any trouble shoot work a snap.
Posted By: derater Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 10:14 PM
Thanks all, for the feedback.I asked because every EC I've worked for said to feed the power to the switch.I like it that way, also
as sited by Pauluk,homeowner thinks w/ switch off the fixture is safe,but...
Posted By: iwire Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 10:27 PM
I don't have to mark the white used to feed a switch black. [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Bob
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 10:47 PM
Bob: You've told me that before, and I find it interesting about your amendments. I find it particularly interesting that electrons move slower in Massachussettes than any other state in the nation [Linked Image], such as evident by the 310.15(?) or 310.16(?) amendment for conductor ampacity.
Posted By: iwire Re: Resi light circuits - 03/30/04 11:41 PM
Ryan I was curious about the change in derating here in MA and Don R hooked me up. [Linked Image]

The table we use was the table from the NEC and you can still see it in Annex B Table B.310.11

The difference is we still consider load diversity and the NEC no longer does.

The remarking issue is more about "if you do not know what your doing keep your fingers out of electric boxes" [Linked Image]
Posted By: NJwirenut Re: Resi light circuits - 03/31/04 12:12 AM
As a matter of preference, I almost always bring power in at the switch. I generally use a 3 conductor cable between the switch and the ceiling box, to allow for future wiring of a fan/light with independent control. For a standard switch installation, I just cap off the red wire at both ends.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Resi light circuits - 03/31/04 08:52 AM
Quote
I understand that for commercial work in the UK, one can obtain twin plus ground cable with two hot coloured wires specially for loop-ins.
Yes, "Twin & Earth" with two red wires instead of red/black has been available for quite a while in the smaller 1 and 1.5mm sizes used for lighting circuits. It doesn't seem to be that widely used, though.
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