I have some GE 15 Amp, 240 Volt single phase watthour meters that I am trying to turn into desk ornaments and would like to get the "wheel" to spin without using a lot of power. Can anyone help?

Thanks, Roger

You need to increase the number of turns on the "coils".

Connect the meter’s top blades to 120V and a 120V load to the bottom blades. Speed may be disappointing.

I have 120 connected to one top connection, neutral to the other.

Bottom to a 60 watt bulb. Wheel turns real slow. I was just hoping for it to turn a little faster for the "cool factor".

Thanks, Roger

You can try taking the magnet off the wheel and de-gaussing it, but, if this is truely a 240v meter, then it will not make much of a difference.

Next time, try getting ahold of a 120v meter. works much better.

Rick Miell

Make it into a 3 way lamp 50/100/150 might spin a litter faster

Thanks guys,
What I am really trying to accomplish is to get the "wheel" spinning without using/waisting power. This is just a novility. I am also installing some blue - red LED's for effect.

Roger

About the only way to get the Rotating Register (the "Wheel") to spin fast will be to draw a high level of True Power through the Meter - as it measures "Long-Term" true power consumption (more like draw).

If the Rr was a very low number - like Rr=1, then the Rotating Register would spin fast - as compared to the load drawn through it.

On a two-wire 120VAC KWH Meter, with an Rr of 1, and class rating of <200 Amps, the "Wheel" spins like crazy with a 1KW load drawn through it. I mean it spins so fast, the 360° notch mark cannot be seen, as it flashes by with each RPM!

To achieve a faster spin, the Rr will need to be as low as possible. I would expect the Rr of your Meter to be something like 14-7/9, or more. Sound right? You will see this printed somewhere on the meter - most commonly printed on the Dial Registers' faceplate.

Lastly, the way you have connected the 240VAC KWH Meter is not accurate for that meter's rating. It should have 240 VAC conencted through it for proper KWH reads (I'll double verify this in the books if needed!).

Maybe using a Series Motor to spin the "Wheel" would be an option?!?! A setup like typical floor heaters with blower fans is what I am referring to.
If not, then simply spin it with a variable speed Motor - not series with any loads.

Last options are to rewind / reconfigure the Voltage and Current Transformers within the Meters,
or simply draw a gang-load of True Power through the Meters.

Remember, these things respond to True Power Consumption (how much Wattage is drawn over a period of time), not Volt-Amps or Current; so to make them run faster, they need to see larger levels of power.

Let us know what's up and stuff!

Scott35

ive got a lamp with a meter in the base, just like you are building. in fact i think it has the same meter in it. i remember seeing a knob inside the meter that said S<-->F that looks like slow/fast to me. im guessing it's for calibration or something. have you tried playing with that? if it does in fact adjust the speed, i would think it would only be a small adjustment. my meter lamp spins pretty slow too, and i have a 150 watt bulb in it (big room)

Here is the info on the meter.
General Electric single phase watthour meter, type I-30-S, Kh=3, 15 Amp, 240 V.,3 wire, 60 cycle, Model AR5,
On the dial register numbers stamped are 33 1/3.

Accuracy is not a concern, I have never worked on one of these before so just trying to make a cool toy.

If I could get the wheel to spin maybe 20 RPM?

I did try adjusting the S--F screw and it did not have any noticable effect.

Thanks guys, Roger

What happens if he finds and removes the braking magnet from the meter? It will kill the accuracy but would presumably cause it to spin faster....if I understand how these meters work, that is

-Jon

They aren't designed to turn 20 rpm's. I would think it would destroy the bearings and gears in short order.

"They aren't designed to turn 20 rpm's. I would think it would destroy the bearings and gears in short order. "

apparently you've never seen a house with electric heat, electric oven & stove, many indoor and outdoor lights and a dual element electric water heater all on at the same time. i think it turns like 60-100 RPM

i don't think 20 RPM will burn it out, but you probly only need like 5 rpm or so in order to look good. my meter lamp only goes like 1 RPM or less with the 150 watt bulb.

Can you treat the meter like a motor? Wire it as a synchronous motor, but put resistors in series to bring the voltage way down.

I think i *MIGHT* have figured out a way to double the speed . wire the lamp as a 240 volt load. connect the cordset as a 240 volt supply to the meter (but don't actually connect it to 240 volts at the wall) don't connect anything to the neutral terminal of the meter. now the meter should measure the current TWICE. if you put a 100 watt bulb is there, it will measure 100 watts on the hot and 100 watts on the meter's other hot (which is actually the neutral in your setup), so it will spin twice as fast.


It might not work because the voltage is not at opposite "phases" as it would be with a 240 volt system. yes, i know they are not phases but i can't think of any other way to explain it.

Thanks for the ideas, I will keep playing with it.

Roger

Got it working. I took off the magnets and now it spins about 4 RPM no load and about 44 RPM with a 100 W bulb.

Thanks again for the ideas.

Roger

I think this is the first time I've ever heard of somebody wanting a meter to move faster

Minor aside — induction-disk meters need to be mounted so that the disk is level, or it's movement may become erratic. [The bearings are sensitive to gravity.]

"Got it working. I took off the magnets and now it spins about 4 RPM no load and about 44 RPM with a 100 W "

so, if removing the magnets makes it go faster than adding magnets must .... never mind, but i'm guessing you don't need those magnets anymore, so you can send them to me. I'll put them to good use



[This message has been edited by cpalm1 (edited 02-03-2004).]

Yeah I know

Just reading through some of these older threads while it's heavy raining and stormy outside.

A 33 kV pole fell over outside our depot and knocked all power out this morning with a large humm from the substation transformer.

Taking the brake magnet out will make the meter go faster.

I collect older electromechanical kWh meters and when I was younger I liked to see the dials move faster too to watch numbers click over to 1000 or 10000 etc, so by removing the magnet and put the low load adjuster to + or fast the meter will creep even with no load at all.

Can anyone send pictures of these lamps? I really like the idea of that it must look really cool! I would like to build something like that actually!
A.D

the "A" base meters make nicer lamps. they have a built in terminal board unlike the "S" type which are designed for socket mounting.check out ebay under WATTHOUR.there usually a couple listed.or ClASSIC METERS .COM they have some really nice ones already made.you can use everything from a GE I-14-A to an I-50-A. the best one to get is a 5 or10 amp meter.usualy found in the above models.occasionally a CA westinghouse shows up but mostly 15 amp versions.


[This message has been edited by circuit man (edited 01-23-2006).]

Quote:
"Got it working. I took off the magnets and now it spins about 4 RPM no load and about 44 RPM with a 100 W bulb."

For the "authentic" look, get the magnet demagnetized and re-attach it. Or install a magnetic shunt across it so that the flux fields are bypassed around the disk rather than through it.

Quote:
"so, if removing the magnets makes it go faster than adding magnets must .... never mind, but i'm guessing you don't need those magnets anymore, so you can send them to me. I'll put them to good use "

Right! But adding magnets the wrong way can subtract from the damping magnet and make it run faster.

Quote:
"the best one to get is a 5 or10 amp meter.usualy found in the above models.occasionally a CA westinghouse shows up but mostly 15 amp versions."

The lower the Kh on the nameplate, the better. The Kh is the amount of energy required to turn the disk one revolution. So, for a given load, a Kh of 3.6 will turn twice as fast as a Kh of 7.2.

[This message has been edited by WFO (edited 01-23-2006).]

Kinda on the same topic, I have an electronic ABB meter on my sound system rack to monitor usage.

Following specs:

Type A1D+
Form 2S
CL200
KH 1.2
P/R 24
TA 30A
120-480v, 3w, 60Hz

Can anyone tell me how to, or point out a website, showing how to re-program this meter? So far I've had no luck in finding out anything about this meter.

I would like to reset the grand total usage, program in my kwh/h rate and reset Kh to 1.0 or maybe even 0.5

And to any poco guys wondering, it won't work on my apartment's service, we have the old "A" type hardwired meters.

Not that I'm in any way challenging honesty, but nobody (POCO's or manufactureres) wants anyone getting the programming for the very reasons you're stating.

Nice job Rabbit.

Roger

Shuld provide an intersting conversation piece!

WFO:

You're absolutely right, I really didn't think of it in that sense. I didn't take your comment as a challenge of honesty, either.

I would think that my best option would be to befriend the meter guys of my local POCO and let them decide if they would like to reprogram it for me.

Back on topic, Rabbit, that's a fine piece of work!! I love the backlight in the meter, nice touch.

You'll notice it's a 2w, 120 volt meter. Much better, IMHO, for making lamps since the voltage is right for the appliance.

Thanks guys.
I put a few amber LEDs behind the dial to serve as a night light. I put a rotary switch in back for three levels of light.
The shade is aluminum flashing which I am considering punching a design in. Any suggestions?

I really like that! It has kind of an industrial - heavy duty "in your face" kind of look to it as well... You know as soon as someone sees it they will be all over it and switching the light on and off to see what it does to the dial!

VERY COOL!

A.D

Very cool lamp Rabbit.

The disc meters are certainly more interesting than a electronic meter anyway I reckon mxslick.

Try the blue or violet leds. They are fascinating in the dark for backlights.

I havent had time yet for a meter lamp but I put some blue leds in a 24 hour impulse clock which look very cool in my computer room.

Here's another picture:

Ah, a metered red-light district. Must be in Nevada.

Yeah, a rotating disc can be more fun to watch, but the e-meter still elicits a "what the heck is that?" from visitors. Since not too many people see e-meters it is a surprise. They especially like the display changing from cumulative Kwh, to current actual usage, to display test(?), to rate.

Larry:

ROFL