OK,I,ve heard some of you talk about puck lights for uc lighting. The lights in question are 120v halogens recessed into the cabinetry.

I've never done any of these,whats the best way to rough for them?

Russell

I would be interested in this info as well. In my area it is the consensus that there is no good way to legally install 120V puck lights. Most supply houses won't even carry them anymore.

The last time I installed them I left a whip of greenfield buried in the wall. When the cabinets were being hung I drilled a 1/2 hole in the bottom lip of the back of the cabinet. I ran that out to a single gang wire mold box. I transitioned in that box to wire mold and ran the whip of the puck in wire mold.I mounted all of this under the cabinet where you could not see it,but it could have been done in the very back of the cabinet too.

ga.sparky56 (aka Russell):

I am glad you asked this question, as I am right in a middle of a job with a similar situation. The only difference here is that the customer has two cabinets that have glass doors (to display china I presume) and wants accent lighting installed. She wants the light on the ceiling of the cabinet (all the shelves inside are glass as well), but the top of the cabinet is apprx. 1/4" thick and I don't feel that it is sturdy enough to mount a puck light, let alone withstand the heat (if it is halogen). The top of the cabinet is accessible so I can devise a better mounting system from the top, but need to verify that it complies w/the CODE and AHJ as acceptable & suitable for mounting the light.

Pforte, yes, it seems there just isn't a good way to install. My customer did buy some puck lights at HD and they were, in my opinion, a fire hazard waiting to happen so I told her I wouldn't install those until I could find something better.

If anyone has good suggestions on "puck" lighting I and the rest of us "posters" would be grateful!

Russell,

Recessed???

I'm guessing that this qualifies as certifiable head scratcher.

Is the fixture spec'd? If so, are the installation documents available on the web, or otherwise. Can you send them to Bill so he can post them for us?

I've done a couple installs of recessed low volt pucks in the underside of the upper cabinets, and that required several conversations with the cabinet maker, and even after that they still had to site modify the cabinets. I had to be certain to be present when they were onsite. A lot of extra time fiddling with the details.

The biggest single error is that the cabinet maker will take the physical dimensions of the light and make a cavity that will fit it like a glove but there will be no space for the cable connector.

All I can say at this point is that "recessed puck lights" were the words I heard from the homeowner.

The original specs were for low-voltage pucks.I have all kinds of info on the low voltage,but nothing so far on the 120v.

When I get something on 'em I'll post it.

Right now I too am scratching my head.

The way I do them is install an outlet above the cabinets, horizontally. Do this for every independent group of cabinets.

Wire the outlets to a switch located next to the kitchen light switch.

The 120V puck lights come with a 6' cord installed. Screw the puck light under the cabinet with short screws. drill a small hole through the bottom, back in the corner.

Take the shelves out and cut the back corner of the shelves to allow the cord to run up the corner. Drill another hole through the top.

Install the supplied cord cap on the end of the 6' cord and plug it into the horizontal outlet.

Tev

Try using symphony mini track by contek lighting......all your problems are solved...its awesome !!!!

John D

Google didn't return anything meaningful off of "contek lighting". . .can you provide more information?

Belay that request. . .

I found Con-Tech Lighting .

OK,I just talked to the homeowner, and she says she saw these at HD. 120v halogen puck lights.

I know puck about pucks, is anyone familar with the HD brand? I heard no more about the "recessed" part.

Russell

I still don't know why people insist on this kind of junk. Here are my thoughts on these from what I know about them.
1-Wiring that comes with pucks can not be concealed in wall. (Low voltage or 120v)
2-Pucks are not to be installed inside cabinets.
3-Recessed pucks are to be installed only where the back side of the puck is not enclosed. Such as the top of an open shelf (no door) cabinet.
With all the better options for undercabinet lighting available why use pucks.
For display cabinets I use a Juno 3" recessed can in the top of the cabinet. It is line voltage and takes up to a 60 watt par 16 flood bulb. It is priced at about 40 bucks and really lights the cabinet. If the top of the cabinet is open maybe somthing can be built to hide the can which sits about 4-5" high.

I'd tell 'em to puck off. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't like the 120volt pucks and refuse to install them. I have a couple of contractors that insist on using LV pucks, but i prefer using undermount fixtures. My favorite are Xenon. Not cheap, but the quality is there and will outlast any puck light. The pucks that HD and Lowes sell are very low quality and usually don't last more than a year or 2.

If I must use one of the 2 (lo-volt or 120v)sounds like the lo-volt would be best.

I was thinking of using 14-2 from the transformer for the lovolt lights,and stubbing out of the wall same as we do for fluorescents.

Thanks for the input so far guys,it's been a big help.

Russell

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-03-2004).]

..G.E. makes a very low profile, U.C. light bar that has very small,incandescent bulbs that operate at line voltage..they come with a lamp cord whip and a 2 prong plug..They come in 24" and 36",and most Home Dopey stores sell them.The bulbs are not replaceable,but it carries a 3-year warranty and at $19.95..who cares???

Page 5 of con-tech mini track is the best.1)low voltage.2)is hidden behind front lip of cabinet.3)lights can be moved and added too if needed.4)stub 14/2 romex or low volt wire through back corner of lip on cabinet.
Puck lights are 1970.....i cant belive that you guys still use them.
I love bidding on a job against contractors from the 1970's.

Bid away Johnd,but this is not my choice,it's the customers. The lights are customer furnished,and were all spec'd on a lighting schedule.

Russell

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-03-2004).]

Thats probably because the customer was not offered a choice or sold on todays better lighting fixtures.
I also love to see the 1970 grapefruit recessed can trims over a fireplace that collect dust and dirt.There are alot of other options......we are not just electricians we have to sell and know the latest ang better products and offer them to the customers."marketing 101"

In this particular situation,"selling" the customer on something was not an option.

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-03-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-04-2004).]

"Puck lights are 1970" Uh ok.

..I've just installed puck lights in a $35,000 new kitchen...H.O.specs...and they love them...what's all the bally hoo about???

No bally ho.......No bally ho.

I recently installed some "puck" type lights in a friend's kitchen. They were LV and from IKEA, and really cheap, that's why they got them. They each had a back mounting plate, and a white lamp/zip cord to a transformer/plug. A couple of them had 2 lights per cord & transformer/plug. Because the cabinetry had gaps(approx. 1/2" to 1") between each unit, but the trim was even and flush, I ran the cables between the cabinets up to the top surface, where I installed some switched receptacles. I used small white plastic staples to fasten the cord on the bottom of the cabinet til it entered the gap and went up to the receptacles. I'm not sure if fastening the cables for that short distance comes under 400.8 (4), but I think The whole installation was neat and safe. The lights were only 12V, 20W max.

Question though--what is the actual cable type per NEC for "zip cord" or lamp cord?

by johnd24

John what exactly is low volt cable and where are you stubbing it from?

CRW it would proably be one of these types:

All elas-tomer (thermo- plastic) parallel cord SPE-1, SPE-2, SPE-3 or

All plastic parallel cord SPT-1, SPT-2, SPT-3.

Its 14 gauge 2 conductor black low volt cable.Sorta like the cable you get from low volt outdoor lighting kits.
We install a 6"x6" j-box in basement and run all our cabinet homeruns back to it.We install a 300 watt or sized to your job indoor transformer in box and switch leg a 110v. switch.
The cable for the mini track has to be located to come into the back corner of your run of cabinets.the 3/4" lip that is under the cabinet.If i could draw on forums i would."lol".
Its just really a nice product and perfect for this application.The look is awesome.It also comes with a fascia trim piece to help hide track even more if needed.

John from your description if I was the inspector you would fail and have to start over.

part of 411.4

The wire you are using is not a chapter 3 method.

Also are you using 14 AWG with the 300 watt transformer.

14 AWG requires 15 amp overcurrent protection.

The 300 watt transformer provides 25 amps.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 01-05-2004).]

Lol.......does that mean that my lighted door bell buttons will also be turned down........cmonnnnnnnnnnn.
Local codes prevail if you want to be that picky.
334.10

[This message has been edited by johnd24 (edited 01-05-2004).]

John no joke most areas will fail what you describe.

If you use NM you are all set, if you use the low volt cable you have a violation.

You do realize that these low voltage systems can start fires right?

Even with NM you will need to run 10 AWG from a 25 AMP supply.

Do you run your 14 AWG for the 120 volt lighting and use a 25 amp breaker?

As for your doorbell light, not covered by article 411. Although if you connect it to a 300 watt transformer it would be a violation.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 01-05-2004).]

We only use 14/2 nm.........but i have seen many installations that have been installed using the low volt wire.
We use 14/2 because it is always on the job site and easy to use.It is on a 15 amp lighting circuit ,usually from a pullchain in the basement.
Thanks wire : )

[This message has been edited by johnd24 (edited 01-05-2004).]

On the topic of puck lights-I have used the Ieka ones that CRW described in the past, but I got with the cabinet maker and had a false bottom installed under the cabinet to mount the lights in and conceal the low voltage wiring. I installed a recept. in the cabinet out out of the way in which to plug the transformer into. I also used a dimmer instead of a regular switch. It looked sharp and the homeowner was pleased. This was on a total remodel of a high end patio home.

I just finished up another condo remodel recently in which the homeowner furnished the puck lights. They picked them up at HD. I only wished they had talked to me about them earlier though.

The cabinets were again custom made, but I had to try to conceal the wiring without benefit of the false bottom. Needless to say I was the one who wasn't happy about the way they looked. Homeowner didn't seem to care though. People like those things, if it was me I would rather have something else. Go figure.



[This message has been edited by fla sparkey (edited 01-05-2004).]

Anyone ever have problems installing the transformers for the low voltage undercabinet lights? I did a job a month or so ago where the HO supplied the fixtures and transformers, but I couldn't find a NEC compliant way to install the transformer.

The 60 watt "transformer" (miniature switching power supply, actually) was a small (1"x1"x2") black plastic box with 4 wire leads coming out. 2 wires for 120V in, and 2 wires for 12V out. The instructions it came with suggested installing it inside a junction box with double-faced foam tape. No provision for a barrier between 120V and 12V wiring within the box, or lack of approved cable clamp to bring the LV "zip cord" into the box.

I refused to install them, and ended up substituting plug in "wall wart" type transformers from a different manufacturer. The AHJ agreed with me that he saw no code-compliant way to install the things. The funny thing is, they cost 4X as much as the plugins that I ended up using!

Fla sparky to nit pick I will say you would fail inspection. Reason? Dimmers are not allowed to control receptacles. 404.14 E and dimmer manufacturer instructions which always instruct you not to control receptacles. The wiring for the lv voltage lighting system can't be concealed unless using a chapter three wiring method. Your false bottom cabinets conceal the wiring.

NJ, I guess there really is no code compliant way to use these transformers. Many low voltage light fixtures have integrated transformers that mount in the fixture box with no separation. If these products are listed to be installed this way does the NEC supercede the listing?Or vice versa?