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Posted By: elecbob Extension cords - 12/31/03 06:08 PM
A fire destroyed a $750.000 house yesterday. The cause was an extension cord feeding a space heater.
It seems to me that it would be easy to have a fusable link built into the plug of extension cords. The code should require it on any cord smaller than #14.
Bob
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Extension cords - 12/31/03 07:05 PM
elecbob,
While I must say that this would be a good idea.
There is also the problem of people by-passing the link after it has operated, to get the cord-set working again.
What about a cord-set with a Minature Circuit Breaker type device in the Male end of the cord?.
Posted By: timpday Re: Extension cords - 12/31/03 10:48 PM
Why not a little something from both? The link for all existing space heaters. And instead of having the minature circuit breaker on the cord, make it part of the space heater itself. I know I have seen some appliances with "new" cords on them. With the circuit breaker part of the heater itself, diyer can't bypass that breaker.
Posted By: iwire Re: Extension cords - 12/31/03 11:00 PM
Tim the heater will not "know" what size extension cord it is plugged into.

If the heater draws 16 amps it would need a fuse or breaker to handle that.

Now the unknowing homeowner uses a 16 AWG cord and melts the cord.

FYI a 16 AWG cord has an NEC ampacity of 13 amps.
Posted By: wa2ise Re: Extension cords - 12/31/03 11:20 PM
Quote
It seems to me that it would be easy to have a fusable link built into the plug of extension cords. The code should require it on any cord smaller than #14.

If that becomes required, many companies will likely just quit making cords smaller than 14 gauge wire. Which would also help solve this problem...
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Extension cords - 12/31/03 11:47 PM
At one of the big orange DIY shed this past weekend, I ran across a new type of 16-AWG extension cord with a GFCI plug similar to that on some modern hair dryers.

In addition to this, the double-jacketed cord also had a shield around the two conductors in order to detect shorts in the cord thereby tripping the shut-off in the plug.

It came from El Salvador...of all places.... [Linked Image]

An interesting concept in theory, but picture the average consumer when confronted with the $8 super-smart extension cord versus the equivalent length $1 standard cord from the dollar store. The consumer will almost always go for the $1 cord...

Space heaters EXPLICITLY state that they must not be used with extension cords. It's not only the overheating of the extension CORD that's the problem...it's also the connection between the heater's plug and the extension cord's female connector.

I've noticed heater plug pins tend to heat up a bit. It's not a problem when the thing is plugged into a socket made out of heat resistant plastic like bakelite.

However when you connect the heater to an extension cord -- the typical rubber or flexible vinyl female end will normally get very soft as it gets noticeably hot.

I've done this experiment on 16-gauge extension cords and the even older 18-gauge cords and wound up overheating and damaging the contacts on one of those molded-on rubber female ends.
Posted By: elecbob Re: Extension cords - 01/01/04 01:58 AM
My point is that the $1 extension cords should not be available to consumers unless they have built in protection that limits their load. Only the NEC could do this. Or maybe a humongous lawsuit from surviving members of a family that used one of these pieces of crap.
Posted By: pforte Re: Extension cords - 01/01/04 02:25 AM
I couldn't agree more with the idea. It would certainly prevent a lot of tragedies from happening. Of course anybody could just cut the end off and bypass it but at least they couldn't sue the cord maker which is, I'm sure, the standard practice in our litigious society.
Posted By: nesparky Re: Extension cords - 01/01/04 07:23 AM
No the NEC could NOT do this.
Since the NEC is or is not adopted by state and/or local goverments, and is frequently admended by governing agencies, all a cord manufacturer would do is sue because such a restriction could be a restriction of intestate commerece.
I'd bet there would be plenty of lawyers who would take a caes like that. [Linked Image]
Posted By: ComputerWizKid Re: Extension cords - 01/01/04 09:15 AM
cant they but a fuse int it like xmas tree light plugs? only with a better qualty plug and fuse?
Posted By: Active 1 Re: Extension cords - 01/02/04 11:49 PM
During the cold winter I always see a fire on the news that they say was caused by a space heater. I could imagine a dumpy old building with poor heat. So to stay warm the tenant uses a space heater on an out dated electrical system.

I believe a better solution would be for UL to require manufactures to use 20 Amp plugs on anything over certain amperage. Say anything over 12 amps for continuous use and 15 amps for non continuous use.

This would eliminate the use of extension cords unless they are made for 20 amp circuits.

This would also eliminate plugging in an appliance or tool into a circuit not designed for that load.

It could create work for us. Adding a 20 amp circuit in a bedroom for a hair drier, treadmill, or space heater. They would call because the plug does not fit in the receptacle. If this is done now it is because they were tripping the breaker.

We might also be busy changing out 15 amp devices that were put on 20 amp circuits.

Customers might better recognize when an electrician runs a 15 or 20 amp circuit (or at least which device he uses.

There is always a way around safety measures. Someone could put a 20 amp device on a 15 amp circuit. The plug prongs could be bent strait. They could make a custom extension cord or adapter. I could imagine one of these for sale on the internet.

Buying devices I don't know why I spend the extra $ for 20 amp devices when it is not required, customers don't know the difference, the competition does not use them, and I never seen anything around a house with a 20 amp plug on it. I just want to be better then the other guys and maybe someday things will change.

Tom
Posted By: sparky Re: Extension cords - 01/03/04 12:04 PM
safety is a noble aspiration in our trade, yet it remians a quagmire for us due to free trade. Mexicans are now loosing jobs to China, who owns a good chuck of us via a 100Bil trade deficit. The advent of portable factories is here, allowing manufactures to relocate easily and prostitute the cheapest slave labor...

what does this have to do with an extention cord you ask? [Linked Image]

plenty...

as manfacturers opt to pump out a widget for a lesser amount, that product genreally suffers a decline in quality.

if one testing lab refuses it here, there are 16 others that can be given a shot

clue....who owns the labs??

probably the best local example of this phenomenon is the big orange palace, as most here are familiar with electrical products slight differences can be found there vs. those same goods your supplier may carry.

plastic parts are substituted for what was metal, etc, etc...

through sheer quantity, a lesser degree of quailty is demanded (not to mention that a 5% per annum cut is also prerequisite)

oh, the problem could be addressed, don't get me wrong, but the motive will institute fear as premis for marketability, with heavier 3-prong cords packaged touting firemen carrying soot clad little girls out of burning buildings...

~S~



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 01-03-2004).]
Posted By: George Re: Extension cords - 01/03/04 03:12 PM
It is difficult to believe that many extension cords are fires waing to start.

Looking at my shop, my house, and my wife's business ...

We use a lot of cheap extension cords and we use them with space heaters.

7000 people died everyday in the US from one cause or another. Electrical fires are way down the list.
Posted By: DougW Re: Extension cords - 01/04/04 03:55 PM
Unfortunately, (no 'fense to my brethern, but often due to lazy investigators) "electrical" is listed as the origin of a disproportionatly high number of fires every year.

Had a house fire two years ago - about a week before Xmas. Occupants awoke to dog barking and house full of smoke. Got out as fire broke out. House burned to the ground.

End result of investigation (and home occupants admissions)?

Owners had replaced 15a fuses with 30a (the little ones burn out too often), and had liberal extension cord usage throughout house.

And unfortunately, since the NEC is a standard, not a law, China Electric (or Taiwan, India, Honduras) will keep making cheap stuff for the dollar stores... including the fake UL stickers.
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