What would you estimate the percentage of buildings with completely code compliant wiring to, say, buildings with only a few easily corrected problems, to old places that would be grand fathered, to sites with lots of mistakes, and finally places with really hazardous conditions (fire ready to happen)?

I don't think I've ever seen a compliant building. I'm not sure that I ever will. Even after the inspector and installer walk away from it.

I don't know if it was the full moon, or the eclipse...
Did a few of the resi guys forget how to wire a kitchen???

Three (3) finals; three EC's; three refrig outlets on the small appliance counter circuits thru the GFI's.

Rough comm reno; phone/data wiring, no grommets/bushings in metal studs, no comm/data permit.

1200 amp feeder.....3 sets of 500kcmil???

What's happening???

100% code compliant?? For how long after I give a final and walk out??

John

my inspector once told me that he had never
inspected a job that he coulndt have red
tagged for some reason or another. so i am not sure a perfect installation exists.

Like the others, I have never seen a totally code compliant building. I will even include my own work in that category.

Tom

Speaking as a plant E & I Technician who has studied (but not mastered, of course) the NEC for about 19 years, I have observed contractor-installed work that is mostly compliant and relatively safe, such as properly sized, but not properly supported raceways, 20-amp lighting circuits drawing 18 amps continuous (oops, forgot to acccount for the ballast?), cord-connected luminaires with excessive cord length and borderline work space clearance violations.
Then there are the more severe violations...
Motor starters installed without disconnects, and without properly sized heaters. Subpanels installed with grounds tied to neutral busses, standard fittings installed in hazardous locations, transformers not properly grounded and more serious work space clearance violations.
As a contractor, I would say that 75% of "added" electrical installations in houses over 20 years old are in violation to some degree from overfilled boxes to ungrounded 3-wire receptacles to unprotected feeder circuits.

Although difficult to do, I would estimate that less than half of what I see is compliant, with about 25% what I would consider serious safety problems.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 11-13-2003).]

Like others here, I think ALL jobs could technically be red tagged for minor things

(or because the AHJ didn't get any the night before )

It's the degree of screwup that is amazing sometimes - especially to us, as the EC who comes in after the build to make improvements (or fix the original install).

How can one interpret a minor vs a major violation ?

An NEC violation is a violation!

See NEC 90.1.

Not being in a "Rattlesnake" area ( I guess they are found occasionly ), I would be scared of a Rattlesnake.

I consider a NEC violation like a Rattlesnake, " don't bother it and it would bother you, but if you distrub it - - - WATCH OUT !!!"

That could be a conductor slightly undersized for the load. It may not fail for several years, but when it does WATCH OUT !!

Gwz

Quote from hotline "I don't know if it was the full moon, or the eclipse...
Did a few of the resi guys forget how to wire a kitchen???
Three (3) finals; three EC's; three refrig outlets on the small appliance counter circuits thru the GFI's."
Ok maybe a bad design but code violation?

a worthy Q wa2ise


laws are really not much good if they are not enforced, and they are usually not enforced due to lack of funding.

certian electrical orginizations should actually be studying your questions in depth as to the overall efficy of the NEC.

to allow for manufactures to introduce frivilous codes on one hand, and expect compliance without unbias oversight on the other is a holy grail approach.

what are the percentages? on second thought, perhaps such ineptitude would be detrimental pr eh??

follow the money...


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 11-13-2003).]

I was thinking more of the 370 degrees of bend in a run, vs. the 16awg service entrance

Doug,

4 90s and a little kick?
I've done it myself.

Minor violations versus Major violations?

This is actually a discussion that I've wanted to start for a while. It seems to me that there are installations which clearly compromise safety; and other installations which are not significant safety risks, but still violate code. Then there are installations which appear to be safe, but violate code, and are actually dangerous in some subtle fashion.

It seems to me that these different sort of violations should be considered differently.

What would you think of a situation where the wire was up-sized in an attempt to 'do better than the code minimums', so that 10ga NM cable wire was used where 12ga would be acceptable. However the various box fill calculations were done presuming 12ga wire, so now you have some fill violations...but nothing really egregious, since the boxes were correctly chosen for 12ga wire.

I would think that violations of the above nature would be 'minor' violations. Of course, this could get out of hand, if you were using conduit than you might end up with 65% conduit fill...but in a box this is not nearly as much of a problem.

I guess that I would categorize mistakes made by someone who is conscientious and going 'the extra mile' to be different from someone who is trying to skimp and to the minimum possible job.

-Jon

Per Minor / Major NEC Violations;

For me, I could say:

<OL TYPE=1>

[*] Minor NEC Violation: 400° total bends between pull points / Junction Boxes,


[*] Major NEC Violation: #10 THHN cu (in steel conduit) with »80 Amps Continuous load, peaking at 100 amps for 5+ Hours.
</OL>

400° (may) be a bear to pull through, but driving 80 - 100 LCL Amps on #10 conductors is going to bring the fire department to the location sometime soon!
(figuring the # 10's are "protected" by a 100 amp OCPD).

Scott35

After what I heard today in the Big Orange and the supply house I doubt if some people should wire a dog house, let alone anything else.
Quote "Why worry about the label that requires 90 degree wiring, just tear it off and you 're OK. It's not like the inspector will see it" and "You don't need a transfer switch for your generator. Just turn off the main and backfeed thru the dryer receptacle. Thats how everyone does it"

Maybe I just had a bad day but this was on top of a 15 amp duplex, with a bootleg neutral,feed from a 60 amp furnace circuit.

Actual quote heard in national chain home center store, about six years ago:

Customer: "Do you have direct-burial splice kits for UF cable?"

Salesperson: "Ah, you don't need that. Here's what you do. Take a piece of garden hose. Slip it over the cable. Twist the wires together. Don't solder, just tape it up. Cover it with the hose. Then squirt it full of silicone. It'll hold for 100 years, dielectric strength of 24,000 volts!"

No, I'm not making this up.