Anyone know if there are any arc fault receptacles that are listed for use on two wire circuits. If so what brand or brands.
Thanks
watthead

Arc-fault recepptacles will not satisfy the requirement of 210.12 to protect the entire branch circuit.
If you are refering to breakers, I believe that no one makes a breaker for this. Some NM cable manufacturers have began making a cable with two grounded conductors and two ungrounded conductors for this purpose.

you might try CH

Are the manufacturers selling ARC FAULT rececptacles?

Pierre

I have used 2 pole Arc Fault breakers on many installations. As previously mentioned, C-H makes these. Works great with my 3 wire feeds!

I haven't seen any Arc Fault receptacles in these parts, although I imagine it will be soon.

I'm under the impression that the question pertains to 2-wire, ungrounded circuits, in which the GFCI component of the AFCI will not function.
Which brings up the whole issue of how AFCI protection is actually acheived at lower levels of current.
Is that it, watthead?

Yes this is a retrofit of an old two wire, no ground installation. I had not read the entire branch circuit requirement in the code. I guess that eliminates the possibility of receptacles. The entire branch circuit may be an excellent idea in this instance because the panel is in the clothes closet. New question- " are arc fault breakers listed for use on two wire circuits? " Redsey I thought that GFCI's worked when installed on this type of two wire system, but then again I thought an arc fault receptacle might exist, and I have never been on TV explaining what the UFO looked and sounded like, believe it or not.

Watthead,

The [b][i]UL AFCI Test Scenarios[/i][/b] document gives a mixed answer. Parallel arcing, UL says YES. Series arcing, however, in ungrounded NonMetallic is a NO. Look at the table on page five on the linked document.

A GFCI will work fine on a two wire circuit, a GFCI outlet or breaker does not need a ground to operate.

The original question had to do with the availability of AFCI outlets, I do not know if there are available.

I do know that the use of a AFCI outlet would be fairly limited as the AFCI code requirement requires the entire branch circuit in the bedroom to be protected not just the load plugged into an outlet.

2002 NEC

Bob

One of the ways work on old houses has progressed here in Minnesota, when adding new wiring in bedrooms, is to keep the old and the new seperate. Any new work in a bed must have AFCI from the breaker. . .we do that with new wiring including a new branch circuit. The old wiring that is still in the bedroom that is undisturbed by the construction is grandfathered in and left alone on its original overcurrent protection.

On service upgrades, only new wiring added in a bed is required to be AFCI protected.

It's a hassle to run the circuit all the way back to the panel, but it side steps this very problem that you are struggling with.

watthead, iwire,
I understand that GFCIs will operate on ungrounded circuits when a typical fault to ground occurs.
However, I believe that AFCIs are designed with a GFCI component, so that low level (less than 75 amps?) arcing faults will eventually cause a fault between the line and the grounding conductor, which if not present, will not permit a ground fault to occur inside the cable, and therefore, not open the circuit.
This, I believe, is part of the controversy surrounding the performance of AFCIs.
I'd like to hear more input, please.



[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 09-25-2003).]

Redsy,

I second your take on sub-70 amp series faults without equipment grounding. AFCI breakers aren't listed for it.

Nothing I have found in the infosphere todate describes other than the 50ma GFI for the low level arc faults.

I find it frustrating that manufacturers of the AFCI breakers (that I can commonly install) apparently refuse to offer any hard teck other than the vaguest verbal generalities and the most simplistic block diagrams. We need to be informed, as the installer of this hardware, to appropriately apply the technology, as Watthead is attempting to do. . .

Any manufacturers listening. . .

[Clear throat] Ah-Hem [/clear throat] I say, any manufacturers listening!!!

Al,
Thanks for the support.

As far as the manufacturers input, it's like that old saying...

You talkin' alot, but you ain't sayin' anything.