Occaisonally I still go down to my old alma mater, the college I got my Bachelor's degree from. The other day I was walking around campus, looking up old professors and employees I'd known, when I overheard a conversation between some college students and a professor.

Basically that convo made fun of the blue-collar construction trades. It seems the professor's brother was an electrical contractor, and even though he had taken some business courses, he'd never gotten a degree and apparently did not care to get one.

The professor and the students were all having a collective laugh about that, bringing out all the stereotypes of the hard-drinking, loud-mouthed, ignorant blue-collar worker. This annoyed the hell out of me, and I felt like launching into a tirade about just how little good my degree had done me. But I held my peace because I figured they'd just call me the loser because I'd gotten a degree in a field that went south just as I graduated. Must be my fault, right?

Has any of you ever experienced any kind of stigma from friends, relatives, acquaintances or even customers about your career choice? Any of them look down their nose at you as being too "dumb" to get a degree of anything like that?

Personally, the more I look at the skilled trades career path, the more I wish I'd never bothered getting a degree. If I'd gotten into an electrical apprenticeship program 10 or so years ago instead of starting to go to college part-time, I'd most likely be SO much further ahead financially than I am now, it almost hurts to think about it.

MacWire

Hi Macwire:
Before I make a couple of observations regarding what you have written, let me tell you a little about myself. When I was a kid, it was always my intention to be an electrician when I grew up. When I went to college, somehow my path changed and I wound up receiving a Bachelor of Arts Degree 29 years ago and went to work at a small two- year junior college as an audio-visual media specialist, the job I have to this day. I honestly feel that my degree has done nothing to prepare me for the work I do now.

I occasionally overhear "colleagues" at my place of work berating blue-collar workers in one way or another, sometimes saying horrible things about them. And I have heard the same stereotypical descriptions of being "hard-drinking, loud-mouthed, [and] ignorant," along with a few other descriptions that I would not use in any kind of company, polite or otherwise. But one thing that I notice about my "colleagues" who hurl these insults about, is that these highly degreed people (with masters degrees and doctorates...with noses pointing skyward to match )is that they do not come close to having the same kind of honest, get-down-and-get-to-work work ethic that the vast majority of blue collar workers possess. At my college workplace, I find myself "identifying" far easier with the good people on our maintenance staff - housekeepers, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, groundskeepers, and so on. These are the people who have a good work ethic, they put their hearts into anything that they do, and they do it with a much greater spirit of cooperation and comradery than any of the "higher level" employees. I have no doubt that any of these people could have gone to college, received a degree and gone to work in some higher paying situation, but for one reason or another, they simply did not. And I certainly would not be presumptuous enough to pass judgement on these people. They are fine people, they excel in their work, and I consider them my friends.

Anyone who would look down their nose at these honorable people needs a swift kick to bring them back to reality!

BTW, I kick myself every day for not following through with my original career plan...I guess that's one of many reasons why I enjoy this forum so much - the ability to be around you workers.

Mike (mamills)

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, passed my EIT before I graduated and soon after graduation started my own business working in and around gasoline equipment. Got a limited electrical license and then went back to school nights to get my Master electrical license. I'm as blue collar as they come, if someone doesn't like it, oh well. A guy I do business with always tells me to not get mad at a customer, just wait, they'll need something and hit'em where it hurts, the wallet , thats how I get even

I have to say that the guys I see everyday in the supply house are mostly foul mouthed hard drinking dirty types that I wouldn't let into my house. This is not to say we all are (I am not of course) But many are. It is amazing to me to hear the constant barage of F bombs dropping there and on the jobsites. The stereotype is well deserved.

It depends a lot on middle-management climate, but one {by no means fast-paced} approach in larger organizations, as a maintenance electrician, is to comment—a little at a time; later by formal invitation—on locally generated specifications and drawings that involve a project that you will “inherit” after construction. Start simply with very basic statements on simpler aspects that you find to be clear inconsistencies that will likely end up costing more money over the life of whatever is being built; {id est, you may have to deal with on a daily basis that will clearly cost your employer money to address potentially decades after final construction signoff.} Be prepared to carefully detail, reference and justify your reasons why something on paper doesn’t add up, and if left unmodified will turn into long-term heartburn for your employer {and you.} The Prime Directive should be convincing managers and engineers/designers that a little money spent now will save a lot more in the future. Keep your input as technical as possible and minimize anecdotes and emotionally based “justification” as much as you can.

A good place to start is finding built-in NEC violations At The Design Stage that will usually show up as bloodthirsty insistence on a change order by the construction contractor. {Sometimes, construction foremen live and breathe for the “quick cash” that may be “required” for curing engineering goofups.} Don’t forget that it works both ways—if you work for/as a contractor, on-the-job ideas that can simplify and improve the finished product and make it more profitable are key to gaining respect and advancement in your job.

It is important to organize and file [by whatever means works for you] your comments and supporting notes so that you may be able to easily re-address your input a decade down the road, if necessary. You have to be prepared, at times, to be ‘shot down’ and accused of having half-baked ideas, but there’s always next time—where new information you find or simply a clearer restatement of ideas can be applied.

This is one way to limit the “I get no respect” treatment that can be associated with the trades.

When I was an engineering student, I got a summer job working for facilities maintenance. That eventually led to taking over for one of the "real" mechanics while he was hospitalized for a couple of months.

One day, I was fixing a window in a student dorm's lounge and overheard a bunch of freshmen engineering students studying for an exam. They were stumped on a calculus problem I had studied two years prior.

So when I was done, I, wearing my university housing uniform, set my toolbox on the table where they were working, and explained line intergal theory, helped them set up the equation, and solved the problem for them longhand with a pencil I borrowed from one of the kids.

They sheepishly said "thanks" as I walked away. I figure they started worrying about the employment opportunities for engineers on that day.

I completed 3 years, ran out of money (actually ran out lots of times so the 3 years took me 5), got married, had kids, bought a house, and never finished my last year although I planned too.

But I'm still in facilities maintenance.

As for my 2 cents. I went to college for one 1/2 years and I hated it. I could not sit still in school (Nor could I sit still at my desk doing billing or estimating!) and I loved being outside all the time. I dropped out of college and started in the alarm business and I never looked back. This time of year I always get happy about because kids and others have to go back to school and I don't! I love it.

Heh, took me 10 years to get a Bachelor's degree, between 2 years at community college, about 3 years at a four year college taking one major (Electrical Engineering), flunking that major, taking a year off, changing majors, and finally finishing in another major (Computer & Information Science).

The ironic thing is, during my year off I first found out about the electrical apprenticeship, and seriously considered it. But I decided I needed to finish getting the degree. If only I knew then what I know now....

The MacNut

I as a contractor would rather work for a blue collar man any day. The highbrows seem to be the cheapest people there are, gripe about everything and always say the bill sure was high. I have had blue collar people ask me if I was charging them enough! Although I also see Scott's types with the F bomb dropping too, last night at work myself and another maint guy even talked about the language loud enough so the dolts who were using said words in front of women could hear. That is my main pet peeve, using offensive language in front of women. Dad taught me better and some also comes from working in a hospital, women to men ratio was about 20 to 1.

I've got a couple of degrees on the wall and I've worked my way into a low level management position with the government. I've been here long enough that I'm eligible to retire this year. I am seriously considering bailing out and going back into the trade for the next 5 or 10 years. My father-in-law erected precast buildings in my town most of his life. To this day, we drive around town and he occasionally points at a building and says, "I built that." It may mean something to say you made the company a million dollars but there is just a different kind of satisfaction when you look at some thing and think, "I'm a part of that."

[This message has been edited by Big Jim (edited 09-11-2003).]

My 2 cents worth,
I finished my schooling at 17 and had School Certificate.
Qualifications don't really mean a lot over here, just a willingness to learn new skills and having the right attitude is what matters here.
On the subject of being labelled as Blue-Collar, I suppose I am, but at the same time, we wouldn't be still going into peoples homes if we were as boorish and nasty as the stereotype suggests.
One thing that I am particularly proud of is the fact that, if I have a small DIY job to do at home here, I can do it and will not have to pay someone else to do it!.

Don't sweat it. At least you have a job outside the Ivory Tower of Academia.

Worked my way through school as grocery clerk. Got grief from fellow students - "why work? Just take out loans." No thank you. At least I can put food on the table while you starve.

Got grief when I changed job intention from teacher to police officer about "working for The Man" (Who pays teacher's salaries, folks? Hmmm?")

Got my Bachelor's in '89.

Got job as tech geek.

Got laid off.

Got job as Firefighter. (HS/GED; Ability to read and follow simple instructions)

Get grief about being BC - why am I doing this job? Tell 'em I chose this line of work. Just like being an electrician.

I like looking back at the end of the day, and saying:

"I made this"

All the computer weenies can shove it. Yeah, they make more money, but $$ don't make you happy. And Computer code doesn't keep you dry at the end of the day, or power your espresso machine, or your computer (DUH)...

[war story]Of course, on the flip side - Got asked by one of my FD bosses "what are you wasting your time on that stuff for?" while studying my electrician correspondence class one evening.

Get this - He digs sewer trenches as his side job with the Laborers, and takes great pride in never having attended college.

(So even a BC can rag a BC. I mean no 'fense to 'em, but a ditch digger bitching about a guy certifying as a spark? Get real.[/war story]

Hey Doug,
We all must have made it!.
No exemplary(sp?) quals here, mate.
I'm a Station Officer in the local Fire Brigade and I have 2 apprenticeships under my belt, both of which I have learnt HEAPS from.
You just can't disparage good old Apprenticeship training, one thing I do know, is the fact that, you grow through your so many thousands of hours (and Night classes!) training on and off the job.
Collectively, I've done 22,000 hours of training to get to where I am now and I am darned proud of it, no middle or upper Management is going to take that away from me!.

Vermont is second only to Maine for second homes, the effluent answer up to the affluent for a living here.

i'm well aware i'm living in the largest disparity in the history of man, where the 'ive got mine, go get yours' mentailty precludes the reprehensible blue collar

so be it....

I graduated with a BSEE in 1960 and received my PE shortly after.I worked for 36 years for a large corp(designing,testing,managing other engineers and technicians in commo and radar systems) and my decisions and work efforts were respected until I made the announcement at my retirement dinner that I had my EC license and that I intented to work as an electrican.The words out of my immediate directors mouth was "it seems to me that you are going backwards".That attitude reinforced my decision to retire and join the ranks of the blue collar.
I always contented that I made a better techician than I did as a manager/engineer.
If being blue collar means putting in a underground service,roughing in or trimming out a residence/small business then I am proud to list myself as one who can look back at the end of the day and be satisfied at my accomplishments.
Chris

I finished my associate degree in industrial electrical maint about 2yrs ago. I have been working factory maint for over 10yrs and i have one thing to say I love what i do and enjoy the satisfaction of say I built that or I made that machine come to life. They can keep the office jobs and suits.

My wife just said the other day man iam glad i have a husband who knows how to fix things we save alot of money. However that honey do list is growing agian.

One thing i learned long ago from dad. Find something you enjoy doing who cares what others think your the one who has to do it the rest of your life and its alot easier when you enjoy it.

And if it weren't for us blue collar's these big wigs wouldn't know what to do. Look at the black out situation last month. You think they could have fixed all the problems heck no they help help what are we going to do.

Every time I have to deal with those whiney yuppies with degrees that no business would hire and those who get thier kicks by complaining about anything and every thing, I just raise my price. Sooner or later those worthless parasites have to have some one fix something for them- they are too incompentent to be able to do it themselves.

the jist being diversity nesparky?

one is certianly less venderable being well rounded and handy vs. an exclusive expertise in this economy.

besides, manufacturing craps out (or gets NAFTA'ed) long before the service industry

So it's wrong to stereotype us "blue collar" guys but it's ok to do it to the "whinny yuppies". Ok

Good Point Scott, IMO you get what you give in this world.

I seem to be much different then the rest of the posters here.

I did not finish High School (kicked out for good reasons) I have no GED, no degrees, son of a farmer turned plumber, I guess I am the lowest of the blue collar workers.

Does this bother me, not in the least, I am proud of doing an honest days work, and taking responsibility for my own actions.

Part of being white collar seems to be knowing how to pass the buck.

I do not care what the white collar workers think of me, what I do care about is how my coworkers and guys like your selfs think of me.

I have always gotten respect from other blue collar workers and my family, what more do I need?

I was recently working at an office building and while I sat in my truck having my 30 minutes or less lunch I watched the office workers come out and jog, ride bikes (dressed like they are in the Tour de France) and I thought what a strange thing to do, work hard at lunch time.

At Dot.Com's we worked at, the employees where always very busy playing with beach balls and riding razor scooters, now they are on the street trying to find a job that pays more than minimum.

I will stick with what I do, even in the biggest slowdowns I have always found work.

Bob

Marginalization has always been a socially acceptable practice, right back to the cast systems of old.

Here, the class warfare issue transends other prejudices via materialism, which is exactly why it becomes so loathsome.

that should serve as a much more worthy criterion than the color collar you sport......

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 09-14-2003).]

Bob you are the lowest of the low! Oddly enough my work shirts have blue collars. What a loser!

actually , my collars are black

MacWire, you should ask your prof where he intends to be in a spiraling recession.

I do note the focus of many acedemic types is towards knowing one thing intricatly

sort of a bum deal when you've made a narrow market of yourself IMHO