ECN Forum
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Aluminum Buss - 07/22/03 03:20 AM
How does everyone feel about al buss panels?

I have changed out a few that were only 2 or 3 years old and am a bit leery of them.

Opinions?

Russell
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/22/03 03:33 AM
I've never seen an AL buss and I would never install one. Now we put in panels that have a nickle plated buss that is silver looking, but they aren't AL.
Posted By: caselec Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/22/03 04:28 AM
I don't have a problem with AL bussing. Most of the failures are not from the buss but from a bad clip on the breaker. Even if CU bussing is used the damage caused by bad breaker clip will usually still make the position unusable.

Most loadcenters have AL bussing as standard. Square D QO and Homeline loadcenters have AL bussing except for few models that have a CU in the catalog number. Most Siemens load centers are available with AL or CU bussing. Cutler Hammer BR loadcenters have AL bussing CH loadcenters have CU bussing. GE uses CU bussing in many of their common load centers. If you order switchgear or panelboards they will come with AL bussing unless you specify CU which will add additional cost and possibly more lead time to the order.

Electric Eagle - What brand and model of loadcenters do you use?


Curt
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/22/03 04:51 AM
i did use the aluminan buss bar also but i am not too crazy with it because few reason why : 1) have to derated more than copper verison
2) easy to get croddred in high humity area ( this is the # 1 probem with it )

3) breaker clips never stay very well in the buss bar at all if remove and install few time it will wreck it see #2 above

the SD QO useally have copper buss bar there but have al verison

the SD HOMELINE is full alum buss bar and that is a low price produit that i will try to avoid it

majorty of my work i useally spec copper buss bar it have better warrty and workmanship is better and more duriblty


merci marc
Posted By: Fred Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/22/03 11:12 PM
I have never seen a Square D QO loadcenter with an aluminum buss and my Square D Digest doesn't list one.
Posted By: caselec Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/23/03 12:24 AM
Fred,

I just checked Square D's web site and you are correct about the QO load center having Cu bussing with a few exceptions. Most of the smaller loadcenters have AL bussing unless the catalog number ends with a CU but anything 125 amp and over appears to have CU bussing. I don't use QO loadcenters much and the information I was looking at last night only showed optional CU bussing on a few models.

Curt
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/23/03 08:27 AM
Russell,
I've worked with AL busses before and I think that they should be got rid of, the world over!. [Linked Image]
Give me brass or Cu, any day, something that has a certain level of mechanical integrity.
The thing that I hate the most about Al, is the fact that, ALL the Busses, have to be that much bigger and heavier, as compared to Cu.
And the corrosion problems....don't get me started now, I work with Al, quite frequently!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: donles Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/23/03 08:31 PM
I'm under the impression that aluminum buss in a panel is plated, same as copper. Why does it corrode? Is corrosion based on geographic location such as coastal areas?

Trumpy, no offense but as far as size goes, the same breakers clip to copper and aluminum so how is that an issue? I'm just trying to get an understanding.

Aluminum buss seems to be a hot point with some guys but to others it doesn't matter. I've done most of my work in industry and I'm into residential now. In my limited residential experience, I have not seen problems that I could say were caused entirely by aluminum buss.

Don
Posted By: Fred Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/24/03 01:32 AM
I have sen several alum buss stabs arced away to nothing. They were usually in loadcenters located in unheated areas with 2 pole breakers installed where the buss failed. Often the breaker was feeding electric heat. I theorized that the swelling and shrinking from heating and cooling loosened the connection over time and caused greater heating with the loose connection until it became loose enought to start arcing. I saw this a lot in livestock buildings in the 70s-80s. The added corrosive conditions of livestock buildings, especially hog buildings, caused several failures I saw to occur with in 2 years. Personally, I never use alum buss panels. The savings over copper aren't that great and there is no question that copper is a better conductor than aluminum. Panels I use are either tin plated or nickel plated copper. I haven't seen a copper buss failure of one of my installations in my 24 years in the trade.
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/24/03 03:40 AM
Thanks for the input gentlemen. [Linked Image]
Posted By: C-H Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/24/03 04:29 PM
Donles,
Quote

Trumpy, no offense but as far as size goes, the same breakers clip to copper and aluminum so how is that an issue? I'm just trying to get an understanding.

Trumpy is in New Zealand. The American panels are a bit different from those used in many other countries where the panel is just a box and you put in the buss. (More flexible, since you can put whatever you like in the panel from timers to receptacles, but also more work)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 07-24-2003).]
Posted By: donles Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/25/03 01:24 AM
C-H

Thanks, I didn't know you could "roll your own" in other countries.

Don
Posted By: sparkync Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/25/03 03:17 AM
Just got through changing out an old Zinsco panel, that looks like an aluminum buss. It was corroded pretty bad. The power was fluctuating pretty bad before I changed it out. In fact, I think it may have caused the homeowner's refrigerator to go out...
Of course, like has been said, it also could have been caused by the breaker just as well, even though the buss was severely corroded... My input.... Steve.
Posted By: LK Re: Aluminum Buss - 07/25/03 03:49 AM
Please don't knock the alum buss panels. If they stop installing them Half of our service work would go away. This week one call "My main breaker gets very hot, They changed it and it still gets hot." We put a CH all copper panel in no more problems. Yesterday call "My lights go off and come back on when the garage door closes." Hot spots all over the alum buss. Yes it appears the breaker clip is the problem on Alum buss.
© ECN Electrical Forums